Finding your Place in the Sync world with Rick Seibold

So often when discussing one area of the music business such as Sync licensing the first thing that comes to light is how enormous a beast it is with so many variations and no wrong way to find your place within it. Today we have a phenomenal guest, Rick Seibold and we discuss all things about getting into the business of Sync placements and how he has found so much success.

0:00:01.5 S1: Welcome to the show that explores the methods and strategies on loan the financial side of your music business with over 40 years combined experience. Here are your host, Chris Webb and Dave Tanka. Welcome to musicians teacher. We talk about musicians and money like a bull in hibernation, we believe your earning potential just needs the right environment, the right elements to grow, it's full potential. I'm your host, Chris web joined Vomica host, and someone who is never dormant, Dave dam get...

0:00:35.0 S2: Chris things were having me back, I feel the same way, I don't want... People won't go for me. You know, dormant-dormant. Oh, I'm sorry. Doormat thought you said dormitory, I'm never dormant.

0:00:50.0 S1: Today's quote comes from our guest himself re-cable, he said, build your team with people who are better than you at the things you suck at, today we will cover the rapidly expanding world of sync placements. We discuss how to get started, how the money flows, and help you understand publishing and master ownership, all that

0:01:11.3 S2: Right after this. In 2005, but Henderson began working on an amplifier to fill what he saw as a void in the marketplace for a guitar amplifier designed to meet the needs of jazz guitar players who wanted a extremely high quality sound and a portable package pennant amplifiers, designs and manufactures high quality analog musical instrument amplifiers in Arvada, Colorado, with the 100% customer SAT is faction guarantee you really won't believe the tone coming from either your electric or guitar and string instrument with a pick up for that matter, not to mention the vying these beautifully made compact lightweight amps are capable of cleanly producing... I have one, I love it. It's the best amp that I have played in the last 20 years. For what I need with divers activity to cover almost any kind of big... This is a must have piece of gear for the working musician. Learn more at henie dot com and enter TJ 10 for 10% off your purchase. Welcome back, everybody. This week's non-profit is the Harmony Project. The Harmony Project harness is the transformative power of music to increase access to higher education for underserved students by removing systemic barriers to achievement through academic and social support, is recognized as one of the most effective artists-based youth development programs in the nation.

0:02:30.2 S2: They are LA's largest music education organization dedicated exclusively to youth from low-income families and under-resourced communities, learn more at Harmony Project dot org, and make sure you rate, subscribe to this podcast, leave us a comment, go to our website, check out all those resources and the discounts that we've collected to help you while you're there, you can sign up for a few weekly newsletter, Well, we'll connect you to other related articles and keep you on top of all those opportunities for your music business. So often when discussing one area of the music business such as Sync Licensing, the first thing that comes to light is how enormous abuse it really is, they have so many variations, and there's no wrong way to find your place within it. Today, we have a phenomenal guest, we're exiled. And we discuss all the things about getting into the business of Sint placements and how he found so much success, resale is a songwriter, recording artist and composer, based in Los Angeles, California.

0:03:34.1 S1: With two GMA Dove Awards, four Billboard number one albums, and over 350 million views on YouTube, to his credit.

0:03:43.2 S2: Cybele has carved out a unique niche in the music industry in multiple genres with hundreds of so in placements to date, cable has become one of the most prolific producers in the world of film and TV. So let's jump right in.

0:04:02.0 S1: Thanks Guy, I appreciate you having me here.

0:04:03.5 S2: I'm really excited to talk to you today. We really appreciate you brought all those guitars with you too, it's almost like a real world camera angle where we just get the side of you and then... 17 beautiful retires. I purposely did that so that this is my best side.

0:04:19.5 S1: The other side is not as sexy a man... You're a musician podcast. Why not have a Italy instruments? 'cause they look a lot better than I do.

0:04:27.9 S2: So it's like the spouse side of your room, the better half... Exactly, this is definitely the better half of the room over is just a couch. It's not that, it's not

0:04:38.4 S1: Cool, which is where you sleep when you work in 24 hours a day, if you got...

0:04:41.3 S2: Exactly, yeah.

0:04:42.5 S1: Yeah. Well, so I wanna talk a little bit about... We've had the intro, but I wanna talk a little bit about how you got your start in the sink world of music. Yeah, great. So in a nutshell, I launched off after college to move to New York City because I wanted to play in the bars and the clubs in New York, and I wanted to change the world with my music. And on and on, and I do launch off into the journey that most of us do as musicians, we wanna make an impact if we wanna just reach the world with our music and what we have to say and all this kind of stuff. I think I got to a point where I was like, Man, this is really hard to make money here, and I gotta think about a different way to provide for myself or earn an income and build a fan base and do all this stuff, 'cause I was an independent musician, I didn't have a major record label that just was flush with cash, that was buying me like a huge apartment and champagne bottles and endless amounts of food and all that kind of stuff, I was just a broke struggling musician, and so when I...

0:05:50.8 S1: I guess after my journey in New York, I moved to Nashville, I lived in New York for a few years, and then moved to Nashville and ended up meeting a bunch of music supervisors that came in on a conference, and if you're looking to launch into... Do and sync licensing and stuff like that. I think it's an excellent place to start actually, there's a bunch of these little conferences where music supervisors will come in and then they listen to your songs or they'll just kinda share their knowledge and how to get placements on TV and stuff like that, in Durango a good one, this one happened to be called All About Music, and a bunch of supervisors from Los Angeles flew into Nashville, they had showcases and it was like a two or three-day event kind of thing, and I just kinda went there and I ended up meeting one of the people that was putting on the whole thing, and he was like, Hey, come, yeah, 'cause I was like, Hey, I'm really interested in since licensing and all stuff that... He was like, You know what, I like, won't you come tomorrow? There's a private showcase and all the music supervisors are there, there was lunch and everything, so I tagged along and ended up meeting, I don't know, 30 people that were all from LA, were out in Nashville who worked on all these crazy shows, and from there, that ended up, yeah, just like giving me an introduction into that world and to sink licensing some of those people and end up taken me under their wing and really showing me how to craft a song for sink and for TV and film and...

0:07:18.6 S1: Man, how powerful is that today in a viral world where everyone wants to figure out how to go viral, what is more viral than a sing song, that's why I think so many times sink songs work so well in videos and viral songs and are really sink-able songs, because they match with picture so well and anyway. That's how short I got started. Yeah.

0:07:40.0 S2: Just it was a chance sort of encounter with a guy that brought me along and ended up eating a whole lot more people that way.

0:07:45.1 S1: He just got out of network, and we hear that a lot about how important networking is and how much of it's still a people business. It's all a people business... Yeah, especially the music supervisor world, the sink world is all about the relationships you have, and that doesn't mean that if you're in Colorado or Nebraska or North Carolina, where I'm from that you can't meet people, I mean, I would save your harder and bills and try to go to Nashville or go to... I know they do Durango, it's like the sink conference they do out here in California, save up some money and try to go to one of these things, and usually there's an audition process to get in, but then you can sort of mix and mingle with a lot of other people, artists who are doing the same thing, which is equally as important as meeting the music supervisors, because it's not all about just like the gatekeepers and the get the people, like placing the songs on the shows, it's equally as important to meet other people who are getting tons of placements, and a lot of the success that I've had has been exactly through that by collaborating with other artists who happen to be really great at sink song 'cause I've learned so much from them as well, so...

0:08:58.4 S1: Well, so first I wanna say that I love the Durango. We have it here right by us.

0:09:04.2 S2: Is one of the two riveted Ed that for many years.

0:09:07.5 S1: The... Great, fantastic, and it's wonderful. I really do. I've never been actually... Yeah, I've never been for some reason, but it's on the list to go next year, it's something I really...

0:09:19.8 S2: Yeah, I need to do...

0:09:20.8 S1: Well.

0:09:21.3 S2: It's funny can have done on things like that, so I teach at the university to Colorado, Denver.

0:09:25.3 S1: I program... The professor that I meant, that hired me, I met in Durango in California. Oh my gosh.

0:09:32.9 S2: That's a case in point. Perfect example of how... If you're talking about how to make a living and music or how to provide for yourself, that's a great example of how just a chance encounter with a couple of people or a person that this conference turned into a job...

0:09:50.1 S1: Yes, which it came from just hanging out, it's not selling myself.

0:09:54.3 S2: Certainly wasn't going for that when I went there... Yeah, totally.

0:09:57.9 S1: But I wanna ask you something, because obviously, when we look at this list of placements that you've had, it's an incredible... And the marketing part and the networking part is so critical, but yeah, tell me a little bit just about how you got to the level where you could produce the quality in which... 'cause I teach a class on this right now, and a lot of people, the biggest struggle is getting their production to the level, which is placebo.

0:10:26.8 S2: Before you do that, just to name a few of them to solve, our listeners know everything from the equalizer to Peloton commercials Reba graze anatomy, shameless. Just to name a very few of your placements and check out the website, which will give the end of this, and we'll be on our website just to see everywhere you've been placed. Yeah.

0:10:51.3 S1: Thanks, man. Great question. Okay, so how do you get your productions to a high quality... I think that a big element of this is understanding what you're good at... Okay, you're not gonna be good at everything.

0:11:08.0 S2: And so there are several people that I work with and collaborate with. Who round out my skill set? I have a core expertise, I would say, in structure of song and How To Write For Sync in a lyric in production and mixing, it's grown, it's grown quite a bit like what I can do now, but I surround myself with better singers than I am, maybe a better guitar player or better producers here and there, I produce a lot of what I do, but all the time trying to... Yeah, just collaborate with people who are amazing at what they do, and I think that that's probably the biggest key into raising the level of your productions.

0:11:57.4 S1: I keep my circle small. And I think it builds rapport and stuff with the people that I'm working with, but I'm surrounded by just incredible, incredible musicians and incredible vocalist and credible writers, and I have several artist projects that work well in sync, and a big part of that is...

0:12:21.3 S2: Yeah, finding different people who have really strong skills in, I guess, a certain area, great singers, great writers or whatever, and they help carry the load creatively... For whatever project it is that we're doing. Yeah, that makes so much sense. This idea of building that team that fills in you...

0:12:43.0 S1: It is the key. Even if you're trying to do records on a cone record, there's 16 team writers on those songs, right. It's so rare that songs are done in isolation now, back is maybe the only one that I know... Everybody's making records with a ton of people, and so no matter where you are, you can go to any open mic or you can go to any bar in any town, and there's gonna be someone there who was probably even on American Idol or something, and my wife grew up... Here's the story, I was... So we have a little cabin in Broken Bow, Oklahoma. It's a little town where my wife grew up, and it was probably two or 3000 people when she grew up there, but we always go back in the summers and stuff and visit or family or parents or whatever. A man, we were there on the fourth of July, which is right around... Yeah, we're just there for the holidays or whatever, and up on state, just this guy, he's kind of incredible voice and he's in the middle of omon, Oklahoma. It's like, No, in the middle of nowhere. If you guys know reboot to broken bell, you guys...

0:13:46.9 S1: Yeah, but this guy, I ended up like, Hey man, what your story was, you do donate, it turns out he's on the X-Factor one year and credited, he was just like... He made our night, it was so good. There's a gazillion of these people out there, right, and even if they haven't done a reality show or something, there's still amazing singers in every single town, if you're not a great SAR, then collaborate with them, figure out what you're good at, and then round out your team with people who can help make you look good and really fill out... Yeah, the rest of... Just don't try to do everything on your own. You know, if you're having a hard time getting your productions to be high quality, collaborate with another producer, if you're having a hard time getting this like the vocalist, if that's you, if you're not a great vocalist, you gotta collaborate with a good vocalist, don't sacrifice any element. Of your song, because you wanna do it on your own, like you've got to... And maybe your thing is just understanding what works really, really well in sync, or maybe your thing is you just...

0:14:50.7 S1: You're gonna network like crazy, let's say you want a great musician, but this is something you're passionate about doing, they're still away for you, you can still get out there and network. Hopefully, you're good with people, then if you're not a good musician and you're not good with that, hopefully you can... Hopefully, then you're good with people, because there are those people too, I know huge songwriters that have hit that all of us know who are not great singers, but are just high people and really amazing, they're out the people that sit on the boards of Arras and the Grammys and all that kind of stuff, that level of people, or maybe not the most crazy musicians are volo, whatever, but they've got something that they're uniquely incredible at, and so I would just figure out what it is that you're uniquely gifted at, really hone that in become very excellent at that one thing, and then spread out from there. And that's how I've done it.

0:15:48.2 S2: Yeah, we're starting to see a pattern. Aren't we, Chris? Yeah, I'd be talking to Daphne will, is there was a lot of that same segment, and

0:15:57.7 S1: So since we're a financial-focused show for musicians, can I ask you, is there a typical way that you approach these team members to collaborate, do you pay them a gas, a flat fee, or do you give them a percentage of the royalty rights... Is there a typical way that you structure things with your team... There's no typical way. It's all different. Generally, I like to collaborate with people who... Well, yeah, there's a couple of different ways. So sometimes I'll sign people and kind of absorb them under my umbrella of what I do, there's people that I collaborate with, and maybe they have a lot of success in sync as well, like if I go to a really great successful sink artists or anybody independent arts or somebody on a major label or whatever, there's collaboration there, where we'll split things in some kind of way... It's all different. It just depends on who I'm working with, right? Sure, yeah, I mean.

0:17:04.2 S2: It literally just runs the gambit.

0:17:06.4 S1: I would encourage people to give some advice, I guess, if you're just starting out, then you find some people that you can collaborate with in an equal share kind of thing, if you're going to, let's say work with someone who's a caliber way above you or high above you then be willing to maybe give up part of the copyright, I guess too, or just be fluid in it, even hit songwriters that I know whenever Justin Bieber Custer song.

0:17:37.6 S2: Justin Bieber is gonna take 10 or 15% is just sort of the world. Whatever that... Where you feel morally on that or whatever you can write, you can die on that hill if you want, but you probably won't get the... Probably won't get the cut, if you don't give up a piece of it, it's just what the big artist bring to the men, they have an incredible ability to make people a lot of money.

0:17:57.9 S1: And that's worth something, and no matter what... If you go on Shark Tank, you're gonna pay a premium for having the Sharks there investing in your company rather than some other venture capitalists, it's the same thing like in what I do, if I've got people that I've signed and help facilitate sync opportunities and things like that... And then some people I collaborate with, you brought up of the publishing, so what are some of the ways you get paid in this area for sink... So there's a master's publishing copyright. Great.

0:18:31.8 S2: So I wanna be clear about what exactly it is that I do, and I think that clarity will kind of... Yeah, let you know sort of like how the money flows.

0:18:39.5 S1: So there's a few different ways... There's a couple of different ways when it comes to sync licensing, people think of two things one, you've got music libraries, which there's a lot of people that do that, they like do instrumental tracks and this and that, and they put their songs in a big library and normally, a network will license that entire library for say a flat feet, they'll say like, Hey, for the entire season, we'll pay this music library this much money, and then they'll just license songs, and maybe that'll generate a fee for the writers and the producers of those tracks or whoever owns the copyrights, but probably not... You're probably looking to get money on the back end of that, it's a whole another world that I don't really do too much of, to me, that's sort of like... And

0:19:25.7 S2: This is a mention insulting, it's just sort of like...

0:19:28.6 S1: It's usually lower quality music, it's usually... It's like the Walmart, you walk in to Walmart, you can get anything you need. That's kind of what music libraries are... It's not like Liz or Katie, Perry's put in their tracks in a music library, that just doesn't happen. Right. So what I kinda do... And then they're sorted. Then there is the Katie Paris and the loos, and those are like... And Beyonce, right? Those are the big, huge artists that are gonna get a million dollars for a sink fee or maybe more... Right. I sort of try to land I'm in the middle, so I work with a ton of independent artists, some people on major labels, some people not, but for the most part, it's independent artists, and we try to deliver really high quality artistic music that works well for sync and it has to have artistic integrity, we are really passionate about doing stuff that... Yeah, is very artistic. But then also helps, you know? Yeah, I had somebody put it to me this way, I have something that's really cool and artistic, but that also says, Watch our show at 6-30 on Thursdays, you know? So that's kind of where I live.

0:20:34.2 S1: So how do you get paid from that? It's mostly front-end fees.

0:20:39.9 S2: The back end represents a very small portion of my income, I don't know if percentage-wise... It's maybe 5% or 10%, maybe even less.

0:20:48.7 S1: Yeah, but one, if you're going for... If you're putting your stuff, your tracks in the music libraries, that's all you're looking to do, you're looking for those music libraries to place your song, hopefully 3000 times over the next couple of years, so that you can start building up like the volume of it will generate money for you on the back end. With what I do, it's an upfront fee, and there'd be up-front fees for the master side and for the song side, so you've got two copyrights in the music business, you've got the song of the composition, and forgive me if your listeners already know this, but if not, I'll just re-out really quick, so the song of the composition is the actual underlying song. So Dalian wrote the song, I Will Always Love You that Whitney Houston ended up singing. So Dalian, let's just say in this example, owns the copyright of the song, the actual recording of the song is owned by Whitney Houston's record label, so both of those two things generate income, and it's a bit different than, I guess a sale of a song on iTunes if I tune, sells you a song for...

0:21:54.1 S1: If you buy song for a dollar, 91 cents as of right now, goes to the songwriters, the rest ends up at iTunes and the record label, whoever owns the master or the sound recording side of that copyright and Sync Licensing, it's actually... Usually it's even... So if you get a grade anatomy placement and it pays 15000 bucks, 7500 is gonna go for the composition, some people call that it is the publishing is contained in the songwriting side, the writers, the publishers, they'll get that 7500 bucks and then whoever owns the sound recording the other 7500 bucks goes to them, so yeah.

0:22:35.2 S2: Normally we're looking to get placements where there's some kind of upfront fee... Yeah.

0:22:41.4 S1: So that's how publishing... Yeah, but then there's money on the back end to... For BMI, but

0:22:47.1 S2: It's kind of a drop in the bucket or compared to the upfront piece.

0:22:52.0 S1: It seems like where we're headed with these emerging markets, that more and more money is starting to flow into these micro-SIC spaces, whatever the new sensation for social media is, and all of these little the reels that are happening, but I'm curious, if you think this is gonna become a bigger part of the market, is that something that is obtained from libraries or can you find a way to microsite things and still make the same songs placed in the bigger licensing. Yeah. That's a really specific question. I love it. Let me see, okay, so I can only speak for my own experience when I think of Micro-licensing. I'll go ahead and like, I guess to find that in my terms and what I kind of understand that as what I think a Micro-licensing, I think of the music that music bed dot com, people go there, they license the song with the YouTube video for the church or for their corporate video or something like that. The music MET does do traditional sink licensing, traditional Sync Licensing is the Grays Anatomy, the Google, Apple commercials, all those kind of things. That's traditional. They do, they're sort of a hybrid company and they do a bit of both, but I think the majority of their income and their licenses happen on the Micro-licensing level, 'cause it's really easy for creators to go and just like license the song, and that's clear and they won't get it taken down from YouTube or whatever...

0:24:11.5 S1: Yeah, so I'll say that I do... There are several online only ads that I've done, or placements or whatever... I don't really consider that. Micro-licensing, I would consider that traditional licensing, when I think of Micro-licensing, I'm thinking of wedding videos and YouTube videos and things like that, it's not something I do a ton of, but I know plenty of people who do and who are really successful... I didn't have generated a ton of money from doing that, and I think that it's a great way to go, I think eventually everyone is trying to get to the... Here's the tough thing with Micro-licensing is If you're gonna license your song for say 50 bucks or 150, but whatever the license fee is to some YouTube video or whatever, if you're also trying to get Apple or Google to license one of your songs for 400000, it's like a tough sell when you're willing to give it up for 150 bucks and then you're trying to charge 400, 100 for a license, an upfront fee. So I think that's the reason why I sort of have stayed away from that is because it just keeps the value of what I do really high.

0:25:29.9 S1: Yeah, I think that's it in a nutshell. But I've seen people do both, and I'm not one of those people that does it though, so that I have several friends who do it and are happy with it, but generally what will happen is they'll do a particular project and it'll end up in the music bed and it'll be for Micro-licensing, we try to diversify their income, so you're trying to do a whole bunch of different stuff... Doing stuff against the wall and see what happens. I diversify in a different kind of way.

0:25:59.4 S2: But... Yeah, well, I have to take this time to apologize to Chris, I was trying to tell him that microsecond all had to do with the size of the screen. So I owe you five bucks... Chris, I'm sorry, you know I had a different on it, but I apologize for... Or forgiven.

0:26:21.5 S1: Let's shift gears a little bit. I wanna know how you spend your time... Another thing about finances, also being organized about using your time wisely, and we've spent some podcast episodes talking about whether your time black or You've veered the one thing that... Another book that just kind of focuses on simplifying your day... And I'm curious, 'cause this is something that seems to be very important in order to be successful. What does your schedule look like? On a general basis...

0:26:52.0 S2: Well, I've heard it said that if you are a professional songwriter, show me your schedule and then I'll sort of show it, and I don't know, maybe somebody said that in a better way, but in a nutshell, like I show up every day and I'm creative. I don't wait for inspiration, I just get to work because if I tell, I can't pay my bills.

0:27:11.9 S1: So yeah, every single day I get up, you know, I don't set an alarm and the more my kid wakes me up at 5, 12, like 5 o'clock, 5-30, something like that, so I'm up early. So I'm just up and I'll get to it around... I spent some time with my son in the morning and then go to work around eight or nine or 10, or... It just depends on what's going on. I'll try to get a workout in the morning, but yeah, I try to get a... Try to be active every day, I try to work out. And I always get down into the studio and I'm always trying to be creative, it just sort of depends on what... A typical week will have one, two, maybe four co-writes or five... Maybe I'll write every day. Sometimes I'll do two days. It just sort of depends. Some days I'll go off on writers camps and I'll write 10 songs in a few days and then come back and I'll spend a week or two, or the next few weeks kind of flushing those out in the production and all that kind of stuff.

0:28:11.8 S1: I try to carve out a lot of space to be creative and to work on productions and not really schedule anything, so when things come up... Yeah, I'll just have time to do it and people will come in in town, I've had a friend in in the last month or two. People have come in from Nashville like, Hey, hey, I'm coming into town. Do you mind if I stay at your place? 'cause I've gotta get through him here and I have artists over or whatever, and then they're off, right. They'll come back and then we'll just like, jam, write a song into the night and... You know, that happens a lot.

0:28:44.3 S2: I do have a couple of standing rights every single week for a couple of my artist projects, so like on Mondays, I'll do a write every single week with a couple of friends, and we'll just work on our artist project and we'll get together, we brainstorm mostly... Well, I write or we'll produce or mix or whatever, sometimes you just get together and work on business stuff, but you know, the point is I show up every single day, at least five, six days a week and get to work, and then sometimes I will put the kid to bed and I'm up until 10 or 11. It's all different, I try to be fluid, but I sort of have this... I don't know if you guys follow the enneagram or whatever, but I'm a three on the Integra, which is Enneagram, which is the achiever, so I'm like, I just have this internal drive to always create and to work hard, and so I just... I can't go for too long, I don't like being on vacation for two too long... Right, right.

0:29:40.3 S1: Well, and you gotta register when you're on vacation

0:29:42.1 S2: Too...

0:29:42.3 S1: I do write it off... You know, I'll say this though. Yeah, exactly, right, yeah. In order

0:29:48.4 S2: To... In order to get the tax up report.

0:29:51.8 S1: Yeah, But rest is a really important part of it too, on the weekends, especially now, having a kid, my kids seven months old, and yeah, I'm trying to carve out more space to be a dad, I think that you gotta get out and live life sometimes to have things to write about when you get into the studio studio, it's not all about working or whatever, you gotta have space. So

0:30:14.4 S2: That's powerful because I think that that balance that you've found is probably a big factor, and the reason that you've been so successful, right, you figured out what drives you and you've stayed centered on it.

0:30:26.4 S1: Yeah, I try to avoid burnout as much as possible, try to just take rest when it's appropriate and work hard... I really love what I do, Manti, is work. It's hard, it's hard work. It's not hard, like some jobs like being in the military or being a doctor or something like that, but it's hard in its own way, and yeah, so I'll rest, but I'll work hard, so show up every day. Man, that's like what I can say. You're trying to do this for a living, show up every day and hone your skills, get as good as you can and collaborate with people as much as you can, you know, so how long from the first decision when you were at that conference and met those 30 supervisors, did you actually see any financial result from that decision to make this effort? It took several years actually. Yeah. It wasn't an overnight thing. And part of the thing I try to do in my course is take maybe what took me eight or 10 years or whatever, I'd boil it down into a course and simplify it in a way that like... So all the things that I wish I had known, I just try to boil it down.

0:31:39.3 S1: Make a really simple A, B, C and D. Try to do these things because yeah, it took me a few years. I think earlier on, if I had collaborated again with more people and it just took a bit... It takes a bit to build your skills... For me, I just needed to get better. My productions needed to sound better, I needed to surround myself with better people, I needed to have... It's part having the right connections and it's also part being good at what you do, and then having the right people around you to your learning a ton and... So your songs, the quality gets higher, it's so much easier now, I feel like with things like splices and with all the resources with plug-ins and all that kind of stuff, it's insane how good you can get projects to sound, I'm really big into mixing.

0:32:28.3 S2: Like I love mixing. And it's something that I've really liked them, passionate about how to get great mixes, how to get great productions, I think mixing is a big portion of... It's like why people... Yeah.

0:32:39.5 S1: I would say that the songs they get licensed are the ones that sound like competitive radio singles, they can live on the radio if... At least quality-wise. Yeah, yeah.

0:32:56.1 S2: We'll come back, everybody from part one for exile. I

0:33:01.7 S1: Don't know, Chris, what... Do you think there's some things? I'd like to recap.

0:33:05.9 S2: Well, where do we start? He talked so much about things that are relevant to me, so I felt like I was getting so much out of this interview, one of the first things that I liked that he connected with finance and music was that that great music business motivation can come from realizing your financial needs and your goals, that it's not just about being good at your finance, has the value simply of being able to buy your groceries, that it actually can motivate you to work harder on the things that are working, maybe know what things aren't working, where you need to spend more time, things that maybe are wasting your time, all of that comes as a benefit from being good with your finances, keeping your eye on that as well. I know we're gonna talk about showing up and being creative as much as possible, but also keep your eye on your finances weekly daily... Know what you're shooting for. I like that he said, conferences are a big opportunity to find open doors in this industry, and I think I've mentioned it on this podcast before, one of the first ones I ever went with you, you invited me to the Durango, and I didn't have a pass, but I just had a lanyard thing around my neck entire time, just nonchalantly walked in all the doors, but everyone...

0:34:25.2 S2: Just so you know, since then, there was a Durango this year that Chris went to.

0:34:31.1 S1: But he needed a sub for one of his gigs and how did he call for a sub for one of his gigs?

0:34:36.0 S2: He called me and he went to Dingle fast without me, just so everyone knows, that's why this means so much to him, 'cause I was in a hotel lobby somewhere for four hours... Well, actually, now that you bring that up today, I just bought my tickets for the next Durance Expo, that's happening in a venture or California, and I would love it if you came... And anyone listening, this is probably being released after it's happened, but it happens every year, and it is a wonderful place to network, and that brings me to the next point that I really wanna emphasize from this interview was that networking is the name of this game when it comes to the same world player networking, it's that community that you build that can teach you how to be better in your niche and to go after your goals in this industry. Yeah, I think that's important too, because I think sometimes you don't realize what your strengths, a, This is our without being reflected upon by others within the same craft, people that know what they're doing or are aspiring to do the same things you is really helpful to bounce ideas and tracks of each other, you mentioned that production keys can be about building the right team and not so much to your own skills, which is very important, and I think he was so humble about or tea, if I can't sing this, I'm gonna find a better singer, I'm gonna find a better guitar player, but he knows the song he wants to write, and if you can't execute it the way he wants to, or he...

0:36:10.9 S2: In his head, he couldn't go to his team, and I'm super into that idea too, because I think having a team takes so much pressure off of you... You're not alone in it. I think for me, the biggest intimidation about starting in this business of sync is feeling like you have to do everything right, and there's a lot you do have to do that's true, but figuring out what you're really good at, as he said, and then building your team from there is such a smart tactic... Well, I'm so timid just about the production and producing end of it, to know how to use your dad's another art form all together.So I love that he was promoting, don't like your weakness and the prices stop you from progress or sacrificing your product, find again the right people to help you. Yeah, and then knowing how to compensate those people is it a little bit of a tricky subject, because I think there's lots of different situations, as he had mentioned that sometimes they're gonna be way above your league and league, this is all relevant to success in some way, or they'll be at the same playing field as you, and I guess at some point you'll be taking on people that are not as far along as you, so all of that has to be taken into consideration when figuring out compensation, but is keeping it simple was a great starting point.

0:37:31.5 S2: You don't need to over-complicate these things, but they do need to be talked about as we talked about in our other previous episode, you do need to have these things figured out in advance, and if you don't have the money, keep it simple, if you wanna bring your team together, you can divide the royalties or however you're going to do it, and then once you do have your savings together, you can hire someone just to sing that part or just to play that guitar part, and having a professional schedule... A professional schedule, I liked how he talked about his day, and I just finished watching, get back, and that eight and a half hour commitment... Don't let too much go. I'm in the second two hours, I mean.

0:38:13.6 S1: It's wonderful. Right, I was sad when it was over.

0:38:16.8 S2: But one thing that I took away from that, that was relevant to this was that their professional schedule was a little looser, probably because of their success, but what really influenced me was that once they were around each other, they were comfortable, they were themselves, they went on tangents, they had fun. So time blocking in my mind is what that was, Okay, we're gonna be here from this hour to this hour, and we're gonna have a purpose with those times, but we're not going to force every moment to stay focused and that leaves that artistic expression in that room. To be yourself and to then let those lead you towards the creative space that you need, do you think it was legal that they hid microphones and the flower pot during the morning conversation on episode too. Did you see that, that the producers had the camera... Oh

0:39:08.6 S1: Yeah, that comes up later too. I don't know, a.

0:39:13.1 S2: Not the legality of it, but using it to capture some crazy moments... Awesome moments. Any diet definitely sounded like a private conversation, I'm just saying... Right, that's true. He mentioned Anne Graham too, so that was just to see what kind of personality trait you are and how you show up to work. If you wanna learn more about that, go Enneagram Institute dot com. 'cause when I was looking up any Graham, leave me, I wasn't spelling it correctly, it is A to-Word.

0:39:47.6 S1: Alright, so does and donuts, do you find a community resource to engage in, whether this is through a school, through Facebook pages to expose like I'm going to our conferences or meet-ups or... You could start one. There needs to be a place for you to network. Talk about your dreams, find out what other people are doing. And as Daphne had said in our previous too, it's just that sometimes those connections are the reason you make it, do not get stuck because of things you have never done, like I said before, don't like your weakness hold you back, so if you need a producer go out and find someone, look in your network, do this together

0:40:29.8 S2: And do find the things you're good at, you have to really focus in on the one thing that you specialize in, and you need to nurture that so that you truly are the master of that thing. It will make it much easier to know where you can offer quality and benefit to the co-writes that you do and the other people that you work with. I like that. Do you ask him if he had heard about that book, The One Thing... And I'm like, How many episodes do we... The book is just so good. How many episodes do we talk about that book, The One Thing You guys comes up a lot. It does, maybe this will be a drinking game later, every time we mentioned the one thing on... It's the opportunity to learn from others. Rick has a great program that Chris tells me about, but... Well, let me take it, the six-figure program, he offers, so we'll have some discounts for you on the Deals page, check it out, and or one action step this week, make a list of your ideal team for your sin goals, include yourself in that list and see what's missing as you expanded number the importance of those members and find the most important one this week, we know that your time is valuable, and we so appreciate you spending this time with us and being a part of this community, it is our hope that you feel that sense of community here at musicians tip jar and help us spread the word.

0:41:53.5 S2: To make us stronger.

0:41:55.0 S1: What's the best way to get ahold of us, Dave?

0:41:56.7 S2: You can check us out at musicians Tihar dot com or Chris web, the new TJ Podcast dot com. I don't know if you check that out yet.

0:42:06.4 S1: And then... And send us an email.

0:42:08.9 S2: Which Chris will receive a positions... Tiara Gmail.

0:42:12.1 S1: That guy does. Always. Thank you for joining us.

0:42:15.1 S2: Remember there is already enough for everyone, you just need to know how to get it until next time on behalf of Dave Tampines, Criswell, stay safe, stay healthy, take care of each other.

0:42:26.0 S1: As it has been said before, don't be afraid of growing slowly, heard only of standing still. This is a musician Tejano thing. On this show should be considered a specific personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal business or financial professional or individualized device in division results in a guaranteed and Aldis cast strategies have the potential for property loss, the operating on the home of musicians tip jar all the customers could use some y-