Packaging all your Pieces with Fabiana Claure

Chris Webb: Welcome to musicians tip jar where we talk about musicians and money, where we wholeheartedly believe that the risk is worth it to do what you feel you are meant to do in this one life. I'm your host, Chris Webb joined by my co host in the guy still hiding his story of being a gymnast, Dave Tamkin.

Dave Tamkin: Do you know I placed 12th on pommel horse in Illinois for a brief brief 15 minutes of pommel horse fame. And I told and then on our first date, and she goes, that's what you're gonna lead with, like first or second. But you're 12? Like, there's a lot of pommel horse people. And she's like, Yeah, I want to, I wouldn't start with that. She's like, number one in Junior Olympics for fencing. So, so she is, yeah, well, she was. But I guess I didn't know that. I should have asked you first or second. Are you 11 or above and anything that you've done in your life? No. Well, I was 12.

Chris Webb: Standard bubble, Idon't have any ranking of Sure. So you guys are both better than me. Well, our quote today comes from our from our guest Fabiana Kullu. If you really want to succeed in line with your values, you have to be willing to take the risk. Today is part one of our excellent interview with Fabiana. And it is so packed full of eye opening knowledge about how you should be rethinking yourself as a brand. To best capitalize on today's music business. We discussed the process of structuring your music business so that it puts you in the top tier of potential earnings and all that right after this

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Before we go into this interview with Fabiana, I want to ask you if you know what value your business is set up to give and what value you're set up to receive. Is your brand ready to give level four value? Or are you spending all your time stuck in level one? If you're asking me what the hell are these levels? Well, that's fair because we haven't discussed that yet. But that very well might change the way that you think about your business and what you are doing with all of your talents. Our guest Fabiana C;aire creates financial and artistic prosperity for musicians so that they can win back their time and build a legacy without sacrificing the quality of life. As a concert pianist, university educator, entrepreneur and a business coach for musicians Fabiana has helped 1000s of musicians create new income. She's about to do all that for you too as we dive into our interview with music business coach Fabiana Claure.

Today we have Fabiana Clary. She's a concert pianist, entrepreneur and musicians business coach. Welcome to musicians tipster.

Fabiana Claure: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Chris Webb: We've been waiting to have you on for three weeks. So we're very excited to have you here. And we gave a little bit about your bio before we went into this interview, but can you give us a little bit about your background?

Fabiana Claure: Absolutely. I'm a pianist. And most of my career, that was my main thing, I was always focusing on becoming the best musician that I could be. And I soon started teaching as well. And it was really towards the end of my doctoral studies that I started to discover the business side of music, and realize that there was a lot more than I needed to learn that music alone wasn't going to cut it. And it really didn't occur to me to start looking into the business side of music until the end of my career, at least of my studies. And when I did, I started, you know, taking some music business courses. Fortunately, my university had an amazing music business program. And I started learning about the what it is to become an entrepreneur, right? Not just to think about ourselves as creatives who are fulfilling our own desires through art and expressing ourselves and fulfilling our creativity. But now, how do we turn that into a solution for others? Those were questions that I had never really asked myself for most of my life, really. And it just, it just opened up a whole new possibility for me, and I really speaking, super passionate about diving 100% into it. And my husband is also a concert pianist.

So the two of us were in this process of like, now what do we do, we've, we've taken all the degrees we can like, there's no more degrees available for us to do. And the two of us are like in the same career. And being in academia for so long, the only path that we have thought was next for us was getting a university job in teaching piano. But that involves someone giving us that job, right? It's not like we could just go and take it. So when we got to the end of our studies, we realize well, I It's really like when I started looking at the statistics of how many people graduate from music programs versus how many faculty openings there are each year. That actually became the topic of my dissertation was all about looking at how what are the trends that musicians need to consider when deciding how to keep their careers active at beyond school? And how to concert pianists create performance careers? And what are the what are the trends that allow them to stay active when they're not just with a full time job. And I discovered that we needed to become actually entrepreneurs, because that's the only way we were going to take ownership of our career become empowered to build it on our own terms. And so during that final year, in our doctorate studies, we created our business, we decided let's just build a school. And let's find a way to just make it happen. So that we don't have to wait for someone to pick us when we finish. We don't have to just be like Pick Me Pick Me Pick Me. So we just decided to do it by necessity really, even though it was an innovation, it was an idea. It was also a need. And that drove us to take action and not play around with it. And so we were able to get a lot of support within the context of university.

I always tell my students, you know, this is like one of the best moments to start a business is when you're actually in your busiest time as a student when you think you can't do anything else in study. Thanks to be coming, you know, an entrepreneur inside a university, we were actually able to start our business. And as we graduated, we had a business because we use the resources that the university provided the mentorship, the network, the support. And so we managed to finish both the doctorate degree and start a music school. And this was now 11 years ago. And so for the first five years, it was a huge learning. It was like someone with a fire hose just like we're you know, it was so much learning. We were not expecting what a life as a as an entrepreneur would be because we were pianists. That's all we did all their life.

And it was a lot of learning, learning by fire as they said. And within five years after having overcome the first few lessons of becoming an entrepreneur and learning how to run a business, we actually hired many of our classmates who are graduating also alongside of us and falling off the cliff of like now what do I do, we were able to hire them and give them employment within our school. And it felt wonderful really to to build something on our own and feel this sense of empowerment took a lot of risk because we had no funds we had to really be resourceful in finding the we actually opened up a mortar school in a in a mall like a storefront. It was like a lot of investment. We signed a lease. You know, it was like we were We're putting all our eggs in the basket there, it was like there's no backing out, you know. And it was just great to be able to go through the journey of learning full of ups and downs. And after five years, I felt that I had reached a plateau in my life, we had our first son. And I knew that I wanted to help in a new way, I felt like I had achieved this incredible milestone of building a business, but I knew that there was more out there for me. So not surprisingly, when we set an intention in our lives, and we start looking for more opportunities pretty quickly, they tend to appear because we're looking for them. And within a few days, really, the opportunity to come to the University of North Texas kind of fell on my lap, I got an email. And we had lived in Dallas before we went to SMU, we did our masters and our certificates degrees in this area. So we always were, you know, fond of this area, we remember the DFW Metroplex with a lot of fondness and we loved the idea of coming back one day, and that just kind of fell on my lap. And it was an opportunity to, to come in and to build a university program for musicians to learn how to build businesses. And even though I had never taught this formally, in academia, I had always taught music related courses and piano, I just fell in love was the idea.

It just sounded so exciting for me to be able to share with other musicians what I had learned in my five year journey at that time. And of course, at that time, my husband was like, Yeah, but what are we going to do with our school, like, we have a brick and mortar business here, we can't just leave it and move to Texas. And at that point, I was, well, let's not worry about it. I mean, I knew what the statistics were of people getting academia jobs. So I was like, Who knows if I'm even gonna get it. I mean, why let's cross that bridge. When we get there, let's just not worry about I just couldn't apply. And he told me, but if you get the job, you're gonna want to take it. I was like, Well, we'll see. And he was right, I did get the job. And I didn't want to take it. So long story short, within eight months, we had to figure out what we were going to do, because I wanted this opportunity. But we had a music school and a son in Florida. So we spent eight months restructuring our school so that it could continue running without us there. And as we moved to Texas, I took on the opportunity to start the program at Un t. It was a tremendous challenge and a wonderful like new beginning for my career. I had been five years running my school, and I had a two year old and I was now starting this new phase of my life. And I did it with all my passion, I really enjoyed it. And my husband took the reins of our school, and he had to learn to manage it remotely. And the first year was crazy, there was a lot of trial and error. But after the first year, believe it or not our our school actually grew more without us, because we were working on the business versus in the business. Right before we move to Texas, the two of us were full time doing all the things, from teaching piano to students, to recruiting students to billing, to managing to cleaning the academy, like we did all the roles. And of course, what happens in a business when you're doing all the roles, they won't grow. Because as a CEO, as an entrepreneur, you're just stuck in the doing, versus growing the business and really working on the business. But when we removed ourselves from the business, by necessity, once again, by necessity, we actually had to become more efficient and optimize everything, and it grew more. So we started joking that the best thing we could have done for our business was to leave it because it actually became even more profitable than when the two of us were there full time. But this was an eye opening experience because it informed my perspective and coaching musicians from the beginning I told them, Hey, you want to build a business that can potentially work without you one day, or at least not depend on you so intricately, right. And that has become my center like message.

As I've gone now after five years of running the university program and bringing it to national rankings, it became one of the top 15 music business schools in the country for each of the five years that I was running it. In 2020, I reached a corner I turned a corner again. The funny thing is that every time I get these moments in my career, there's five years that I've been doing that and I happen to have a two year old around. So this time around, I had another two year old around. And it had been five years I had been in my business and in the university and I decided you know, I want to expand even further I want to help musicians, not just in academia, but all around the world. And that led me to create the musician's profit umbrella, which is the business mentorship program that I built back in 2020, a few months before March actually started it in January. Little did I know what was going to happen in March of 2020, that the world would turn upside down and musicians would need me more than ever to show up online and to help. But I didn't know that I just started kind of playing with it and exploring and seeing what would happen if I were to start just sharing this online and just becoming more visible. And then since then, I started the program. I launched it in 2020. And after a year of kind of keeping both things going my school I mean, my program with the university job the full time job, I came to a turning point where I knew I needed to to get gift, give up something I couldn't keep going so I actually love Last year, I made the decision of stepping out of academia, and diving 100% into my coaching business to be able to really give it my all, and build a lifestyle that is free of burnout and overwhelm, I didn't want to continue working so hard. I was burned out. Even though I was very successful to doing all these things, I was losing quality of life, I was not able to take care of myself physically. You know, I was very busy. And I had two young kids, you know, and so just, I just decided to leave that.

That experience, even though it was a fantastic experience. It was scary. I'll tell you, it's not like I did it. Because my business was just growing so much, I couldn't keep up with all the money like, No, it was a risk, I was actually, like, I took a risk, because I said, I just gonna, if I really want to succeed and do it in alignment with my values, I have to be willing to risk. So I risk just like I risked when I left my school in Florida and moved to Texas. And, you know, just like I risked when I opened the school, from the beginning, finishing the doctrine, it was all about taking these risks. But I'm incredibly grateful that I now have been able to help literally 1000s of musicians, both within academia, as well as outside of academia, create businesses from brick and mortar businesses, nonprofits, festivals, online businesses, all the gamma. And really, most recently, in the last two years helped musicians create five and six figure breakthroughs in a matter of months by putting themselves into the online arena and really packaging their skills into the online space. So that's a long story. But that's that's kind of where I'm, where I come from, and where I'm at now.

Dave Tamkin: You started out with saying that you wanted to be the best musician that you could be. And it seems like along the way, that every new entrepreneurial goal that you had you wanted to be the best entrepreneur, you can be as well. Can we start where that passion is, which is why I think musicians make such great entrepreneurs. And when I talk at universities, the musicians are sitting there, eyes wide open, not realizing that they're the hardest working humans around as far as I'm concerned for the amount of hours they put into their craft. So can you give us a similarities maybe from where you started to want to own your instrument, to the similarities of wanting to own your career?

Fabiana Claure: I love that question. What a great question. And I have a really cool as that you're going to like Did you know what the earliest definition of an entrepreneur came from? The Oxford English Dictionary defined an entrepreneur in 1897. As one who puts up musical performances, I kid you not? The earliest definition of an entrepreneur and the Oxford English Dictionary defines an entrepreneur as one who puts up musical performances. Why? Well think about it, the musicians at that time, they were hustlers. They did all the things, they sold the tickets, they found the patrons, they rented the space, they conducted the musicians, they wrote the music, they like they did it all. There were no more entrepreneurial people in the society than musicians. So that actually influenced the definition of what an entrepreneur is actually conceived to become. And when I learned that, I was like, Oh, my gosh, so this is nothing new. This is a way it's always been. And it's only later in the 20th century, that the musician became this like, like rock star, right with list and you know, where they were just like, like celebrities, and they kind of got the church and then became the managers and people they can, they started getting themselves more distance from the business side, because they were like the artists not to be. But if you think about it, the earliest musicians, they were artisans, they were creators, they were entrepreneurs, you know. And so that always reminded me that in music, and in business, there's so many similarities, because we have to adapt to change. When we turn when we step on stage. We don't know what's going to happen, we could have practiced everything that we want and have, you know, honed on our craft, but there's no guarantee that the way we were just playing in the practice room is the way it's gonna actually sound on stage. And we all know what it's like when something doesn't go the way you want it. And stage you can't just cut the show and say, Let's do another take. I'll start all over again. You got to keep going. And you have to be innovative, and you just have to adapt to the challenges. Well, that's the same thing and entrepreneurship, when we start a business, we have no guarantee that it's going to work. We just have to be willing to give it our best shot and then things happen. And economies collapse and here comes a pandemic or here comes the inflation or here comes whatever and we just need to continuously be moving and adapting. And so as musicians, we have those reefs X is built in into our DNA, because that's how we became who we are. And so I'm super excited about this question because I am a firm believer to becoming good business people, because we have these skills already built in to our everyday practicing of our craft.

Chris Webb: I want to follow up on a little bit, because I always think that in and that's fascinating about the entrepreneur definition. Isn't that awesome? And I just love it because it is, it's almost like we've come back to that now. Right? And that, that everything we we have to create is up to us. Right. And, and I it's almost like what you're saying is that there was a small increment where that wasn't as true. And but it's back. Right, in the sense like, it started that way. And it's there now. I feel like musicians are equipped better to rollover to failure. We're used to being told no 100 times for that one. Yes. Right. We're used to we're used to being conditioned to accept getting something wrong 20 times and your song until you practiced it enough to get it. Right. Right. And we're, we're also used to having to continually find new ways to make ourselves succeed. I was curious, like, what other ways aside from education? Do you help your clients, your artists, create passive type income.

Fabiana Claure: You know, one of the greatest epiphanies that I've had, especially since I started my own business, is, you know, the program is called the musician's profit umbrella. Because the essence is that I believe, and I've seen this happen over the years, that musicians have the greatest chances of creating wealth, when they stopped doing so many different things that make them little money. And instead of focus on creating an online brand, they package themselves into an online brand. And they compile all of the different things they were doing, but create one way to really serve through some sort of a teaching program, some sort of a coaching program, the combination of the two, but I feel that musicians are not taught. I know that because I went through the training, that actually we can, we can create wealth, not only by doing all of the things, meaning teaching one on one performing on stage, doing all the things that musicians do, but by packaging our skill sets and helping people through our expertise. You see, there are four levels of value. I don't know if you're familiar with Myron Golden's four levels of value. But this is something that I am so passionate about, because most musicians don't know this.

The lowest level of value is the implementation level value, which means people that work with their hands and are confined by time. So we're talking construction workers, we're talking people who work in restaurants, people who, you know, who are working with their hands all the time musicians who depend on like being in a room with students in order to make money and they can't make any other money other way. That's the level that musicians kept at a certain level, not beyond $80,000 A year, like that's the that's the most it could go after that, then there's the unification level, where now you're managing other people, and you're using your managerial skills, you're not using so much your body, you're not using so much that you know the time that you're spending with people, you're using your managerial skills. But there's still a cap like here when talking about people who manage others who leverage a little bit the work of others, but they're still confined to being stuck in that managerial role. Right? Usually the income goes up to 250,000. And rarely exceeds that. But at least you're better than the one doing all the things.

As you go higher, there's two more, there's the communicator, the communication and blood level is where you're now creating content, becoming a speaker becoming an author creating messages that resonate with hundreds of people, and that create impact and cause change. Right, these are altered these are, for example, singer songwriters, composers who are putting their work that can be replicated and amplified by others, like that's the third level of value where you can make each and each level your income increases, right so at the third level, then you're now maxed out at almost 100,000 $100 million is like usually the maximum that speakers and authors and presenters can make because there's a higher perceived value. And the final the fourth and the final level of value is the imagination. Here's what you're not working just through your mind and in using your ideas to create money. Here are the Steve Jobs here are the Walt Disney's here are the people who are putting ideas Elon Musk that are that are creating incredible businesses, and they're just thinking in them into reality and then the map there's no cap in terms of income. But this doesn't mean you have to be Steve Jobs to be able to work at the imagination level musicians can work at the imagination level to when they build online pro grams that allow them to use their ideas to make money versus just their hands and their time.

So for me, when I discover that I have built my business around that higher, those higher two levels of value where I help musicians through my ideas, they get results. And so they pay me for that. Right? I help musicians through my message through communication, what I'm doing right now, you know, sharing with you all like, that creates value. And so I help my clients, and I believe musicians have a greater chance of making incredible wealth happen and prosperity, when they try to go upper, in the higher levels, like work higher, not harder. Yeah, that's excellent.

Dave Tamkin: Makes me think of when I moved from Chicago to Colorado, how many gigs, I needed to play just to make an income, and then going from a larger city to a smaller one, and having the payout be so much smaller. I was at a point where I can't possibly play another gig in a week, I'm capped. And that's just one level, just as far as you would say, how many students you can get per week, you're capped at physically being there that amount of times? And, you know, Chris, I think this goes into the next question, as far as you know, not only being an expert in your business, and how to grow your prices, because of demand. I think that Chris and I have both learned that we won't, we won't show up for less than we have a value that we we know that this is what we're worth. And that's changed a lot of our time and the way we get to spend with family. So I guess, when I was reading your bio, and what your class teaches to, you talk about going from low ticket high volume clients, to a high ticket, low volume clients. And I think at the basic scale, that's where I started with the gigs.

Fabiana Claure: What I'm really centered right now, what I'm focusing on is helping musicians create high ticket online ways of helping people, whether it's teaching music, whether it's coaching, whether it's using all of the different skills into some sort of a program, but it's all about packaging it into an online delivery mechanism, basically giving people access to your brain, because remember, that's the highest way you can add value and the highest way you can earn income. So when I talk about high ticket programs, I basically help my clients who are usually at the starting point, they're very burnt out, they're teaching a lot of one on one lessons, or they're depending on the time they're on stage where they're physically having to be in a stage in order to make money get on a plane travel, etc. And I show them how to build an offer an online offer, that they don't need a massive amount of people to serve that they can start working with a handful of clients, and and start with a price point that aligns with their particular financial goal. So I've had clients that have created online programs, whether they're teaching instruments, they're teaching other things. And then they package them at like $5,000. and above. And within a matter of months, they, you know, have six figure breakthroughs, because they don't need that many people, they just need to know how to package their skills in an online way that attracts their ideal type of client. And with just one or two or three clients, they start building a revenue stream, while they're still performing, while they're still doing all the things they love to do. But not because they have to, they get to choose what they want to keep, versus depending on that income to make a living. So I kind of take a step back and change the paradigm for musicians in a significant way. I tell them, it's not like you're gonna stop performing. In fact, for me, this was one of the challenges because as you as I shared, you know, I'm a pianist. This is my, to my core, like, I've been a musician all my life. And I don't want to give that up to become a businesswoman and be can be a business owner. But for many years, I struggled with connecting my artistic side with everything I was doing in my career, I was running a music program, and university, all these things. And I didn't understand what the relationship was for me to just be able to sit down and practice with everything I was building, so it kind of took a backseat. But as I mentioned, you know, usually as musicians, this talent that we have for music, this gift can become a curse if we don't nurture it. And it can lead us to miss it and to feel that something is void in our soul. Because we love it. We love it and like it's who we are. Like we're stuck with it to a certain extent.

We can't just ignore it, because when you do, it comes back and bites you. So that happened to me. And I said, Wait a minute, there needs to be a better way. And that's when the idea of the musician's profit umbrella came to me because it finally clicked to me that everything I was doing as a pianist was part of what I needed to do for my business. Because now it's all about putting together all of my aspects as a musician and building a brand and a message and a curriculum that attracts fellow musicians right, and connects with them. So therefore now my playing side of my life was part of my business. It was part of my brand it was part of every my credibility. All right. And so now it all makes sense. And I have lots of clients who struggle with that, too, who are like, Yeah, but what does this have to do, but I really want to do it. It's when you understand what your like positioning needs to be in the marketplace and how your creativity feeds into that. And it's actually an integral part of it, then it all comes together. Now, when I sit down at the piano, to practice whether or not I have concerts, I still play concerts. I just came from Charleston International Piano series A couple months ago, and I loved being on stage, I love performing for a live audience, I had a great time. But my income doesn't depend on that. I have an online business, that is the way I'm able to secure my finances and create that recurring revenue and grow my business, which by the way, grows with or without me, involved in every aspect of it, because there are systems in place, there's team in place, and I now have a way to make things work. Certainly not totally automatic, but to a certain extent, without me being a part of everything, just like I do with my music school. And also, that's kind of the main vision and philosophy that I have behind the program.

Chris Webb: So if we were to talk to someone that that is, maybe doesn't see themselves quite as an expert yet, like a lot, a lot of the students that you probably see at the university, you know, a lot of time it takes time to build the confidence behind, consider yourself an expert. But what are some ways that you think someone can position themselves as an expert and be able to raise their prices? confidently?

Fabiana Claure: I love that question. And let me tell you, this is not just with students, I have clients who are 60 years old, 70 years old, and still don't think they're an expert at anything. You know, this is something that musicians carry really deeply ingrained in their subconscious, this imposter syndrome, this feeling of not being good enough. Because as you said, you have to get no 100 times before you get a yes, in order to make it to an audition or to get this job or to get these things. And so this is actually something that I really love talking about, because you can't think your way to confidence. Okay? I can tell you all day long, you know, you guys are great. You guys should believe in yourself. Dave, you're amazing, Chris, come on, you can you can do it.

I love it. I love it. But here's the thing, go ahead, helps musicians build confidence is directly engaging with their clients. It's directly connecting with their potential audience, and hearing firsthand from them, what their needs are. It's really through those conversations, when musicians get to see firsthand the potential impact of their work. And they get to see, okay, ask questions and really investigate. That's when it all comes together. And that's where the confidence starts coming. Because your interactions with your potential clients and your ability to learn and hear their stories and their struggles, and your feeling of like, Oh, I could help you with this thing, whatever that thing is. That's when you start gaining confidence when you start connecting with people. That's how I like to help my clients gain confidence. And I found throughout the years, that it's the quickest way for them to gain competence. Obviously, we talk about mindset, but it's not until they have their first actual conversations with real potential clients, who are like, Oh, my gosh, this thing you just said it is really, really impacted me. And they're like, oh, wow, okay, I guess I guess I do have something to offer, you know what I mean? So I love bringing in my clients and bringing them giving strategies, investigate firsthand what their ideal client needs and make informed decisions, data driven decisions, basically, regarding the viability of their idea, versus just from their head.

Chris Webb: And I think that I think you get little minor versions of that when you are performing and you see someone being so moved by your performance. I think that kind of is as similar, as least how I relate to that, because I always look for that one person in the audience that is experiencing it that way, and I stick to them the rest of the night in order to give my best, you know,

Fabiana Claure: yeah, absolutely. Competence, from action. clarity comes from action. You know, clarity comes from action. Competence comes from action, and there's no shortcut to that. You can think your way through competence. And you can be told that you're, but when you really start interacting with people, that's when you really get that confidence and it comes quickly. It comes really quickly.

Dave Tamkin: that was an awesome interview, Chris. She was fantastic to speak to and I'm so glad we had the opportunity to have her on musicians tip jar.

Chris Webb: Yeah, I mean, what a treat. I mean, just, she's so well organized, you know, with the way As she presents things that I so appreciate, when it's very clear, when you're being introduced with new information, I mean, so often, the reason that we don't understand things is because the way that they're presented is too complicated, right? And perhaps that's, you know, coming from her educator, for background of being such a quality educator, but I absorbed so much from that short conversation.

Dave Tamkin: Yeah, I went on, and I signed up for her Facebook group, too, and also her weekly live show every Thursday at 1pm. Central. And it's just been amazing. She even has a great team, too, that, you know, will describe later in episode two, but they've already reached out to me to just to see how they could help in any way for my music, career and business endeavors. So great team!

Chris Webb: We haven't really discussed too much about how to become an entrepreneur and start a business. And, you know, we've kind of made that clear that you should, and you have to do those things. But we, you know, it's nice to have somebody that this is where they focus, this is where their their talent is focused in on helping musicians begin that process and establish that platform in which all of their income will then be based off of.

Dave Tamkin: I thought that was a nice transition you did from discussing her background into, Okay, now let's discuss not being picked, let's not do things where we don't have control over it. So what are you going to do to make it happen, taking your strengths, and as she said, packaging them into something that is profitable, and, you know, fulfilling for your life.

Chris Webb: And at some point, recognizing that you'll be better serving that concept and this goal that you have, as, as a business or as a brand, that you'll you'll do better serving by working on their business versus in their business. That's a hard one for most musicians to accept.

Dave Tamkin:Yeah, because their business began with putting so much time in being there to practice to become a musician, you're in it, you know? So it's not like you're so much working on it. You know, and you have to make that change where you have to let that control go.

Chris Webb: Yeah, there's a lot of letting go of control. I feel like that we we we kind of brush over and all these different topics of how to become the most successful financially as you can. It's interesting how often it comes back to letting go of control. The early definition of an entrepreneur, I'm going to use that one forever, that's for sure. Yeah,

Dave Tamkin:absolutely. With her definition of entrepreneur, it's also changing, as she said, the paradigm of giving up playing music to making money in a business that that does not have to change. It's one in the same. Let's go over, you know, you put a link in the notes, and then we'll put that in the show notes as well. The Myron golden for levels of value.

Chris Webb: Yeah, and there's some great videos on this too, if you look it up on YouTube. So there's lots of places where you can learn more about this, but the way that we're just summarize what she kind of used it by applying directly towards the musician's aspect. The first level was implementation, which is working with your hands confined by time, which is what we're always doing when we're trying to play as many shows as we can, for example, but there's only seven days in a week, and most people want their shows in the evening. So you are limited, right? So there is always a limit to the implementation level. And there's also a max unusual amount of income you can make. The second level was unification, which is what we would refer to in musicians as managing others. This can be a booking agent, sometimes this. This can also be like the band leader, for example. There's ways there's a lot of different variations within recording, you know that this can be applied. But this, this is definitely moving on up, right. And then we get to the communication, which is the third level, which was kind of creating the content, songwriters fall into this category, creating that impact that that the change that makes it a bigger deal. And this this is really where I think a lot of musicians always need to make sure that part of their business is always growing that third level from the beginning. But that's why we're talking about this right now is because some of us are probably already doing this, but maybe we're not giving this section as much attention. As we focus on level one, right when we're booking shows, booking shows perhaps songwriting gets put away in our law or at least ignored to the point where it's not making as much of an impact. And then the level four was imagination, which is as she said, it is where you really want to try to get to it. In the end of your of your growth as your business goes. That's working with ideas To create that will be like the Steve Jobs and the Walt Disney's. And I would even argue that, you know, if you looked at musicians, that would be some of these big innovators like, you know, some of the Beatles. And I would say all the Beatles, is that fair to say? So they are they created new ideas with their music and their art and their brand, right? They created something that is so massively beyond them. And people want to hear them talk about it. Right? That's, that's kind of like what defines that imagination level.

Dave Tamkin: I enjoy listening to Lady Gaga, talk about that, and even Beyonce to how they've changed that.

Chris Webb: Absolutely. Those are great examples as well,

Dave Tamkin: When we were talking about number four, and, you know, I was bringing up the fact that, you know, I do marketing and do other things within that realm of music, you know, she brought up the imposter syndrome. And even when I listened back to the interview, I felt that again, because if I could have went back, I would have said, I'm a marketing specialist, because I spend most of my time studying marketing on a weekly basis to know how technology is changing, and how I can better represent my clients and to their customers. And when I heard myself say, expert, while I was explaining that I even cringed a little bit. Because I don't know if I feel like an expert. I feel like I put in enough time to be one. But it's always changing the idea of advertising and marketing, and just even the way someone listens to your music and how music progresses. Over time. How are you adapting to that as a songwriter? So that imposter syndrome really hit home for me, not only the first time she said it, but the second time, when I listen back to it,

Chris Webb: I mean, but they always say that the first step into resolving an issue, which I would consider the impostor syndrome to be an issue that blocks you from your full potential, the first thing to do is to recognize it and start talking about it. So you can talk it out, right? I mean, as you said, it's like what you what you do to replace that feeling is discussed your talents, discuss your passions, and start to recognize how much you do know about those things, how much you do have to offer, and how many people would love to get that information from you, right? You are 100% An expert. I just gotta tell you that because I watch all these things that you do to help this podcast thrive. And I know, these are things that I have no idea how to do, I really don't.

Dave Tamkin: She has a free 90 minute guide to packaging your skills into a profitable online music business on her website. And it's just off the beaten path a little bit, but I'm sure she uses it, you know, to incentivize, you know, emails, but it's fantastic. I watched the whole 90 minutes. So I'll put that link in the notes as well for everybody.

Chris Webb: Great. And our one action step for the week is to apply these four levels of value to your business income sources, and then see how they rank. And we know your time is valuable. And we appreciate you spending this time with us. And being a part of this community. It's our hope that you find that sense of community here at musicians tip jar, and that we're helping you and by that you are then helping spread the word for us to make us all stronger. What's the best way to get a hold of us then

you can reach us at musicians tip jar.com or send us an email at musicians Tip Jar at Gmail.

And if we want to connect with our guests Fabiana Yes,

you can go to https://fabianaclaure.com/

Chris Webb: Well as always, thank you for joining us remember there is already enough for everyone you just know how to offer it. Until next time on behalf of Dave Tamkin and myself Chris Webb. Please stay safe, stay healthy and take care of each other. Your ideas and experiences are one of a kind. So share them. This is musician's tip Jack

Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax legal business or financial professional for individualized advice or individual results are not guaranteed and all discuss strategies have the potential for profit or loss. Those are operating on behalf of musicians Tip Jar llc.