season 3, episode 7 (Part 2)

Episode: 67

Welcome to Musicians Tip Jar where we talk about musicians and money. Where we try our best to keep you coming back for more by providing an honest place to talk about your finances. I’m Chris Webb, joined by my co-host and perhaps the most honest person I know, Dave Tamkin. Today we discuss what is enough.  Enough empathy, enough love and enough streams to make a living. All tough answers that need to be talked about.

Quote of the week

“Adaptation as part of the journey, you must just keep figuring it out” - Dylan Dunlap

On days he’s not touring, Dylan can be found in LA, Nashville, and NYC, amassing writing and production credits for pop, country, reggae, and hip-hop artists. Music has been a meaningful outlet for Dylan, as he has gone through many struggles of his own and knows the importance of a helping hand when dealing with mental illness. This is why he has rededicated his efforts as a musician to breaking the stigma and raising awareness. In this mission, Dylan received the ‘Fighting Stigma Rising Star’ award from the National Alliance on Mental Illness and has partnered with Global Citizen, Autism Rocks, and various local organizations to continue addressing the importance of mental health. (Last.fm)

Non-profit of the week

Backline connects music industry professionals and their families to organizations and care providers that specialize in mental health. Not only do they offer resources (like free meditation and yoga subscriptions for the music industry) and support groups, but Backline’s own mental health professionals work with individuals to create custom plans that take things like location and financial resources into account.

Check out https://backline.care/

Chris Webb Well, here we go. Let's jump back into the second half of our conversation with Los Angeles based singer songwriter, multi instrumentalist, producer and mental health advocate, Dylan Dunlap.

I just want to say how hard it is, as a parent to teach my child empathy. It is something that you demonstrate I think you learn from others seeing other people do it, I think is the easiest way to learn a lot of things, but especially something like empathy, which you can't really explain, can't force somebody to feel that. And, and I think in the music industry, there's a lot there's a lot of masculinity, like you said, there's a lot there's a lot of like, I drive a fast car, I got, you know, dates and and it's those people also advocate for mental health, by the way, but they don't really live it the same way that what you're saying and what you're preaching in a way with your music is honesty with that value of empathy, I think being around other musicians that that show the empathy is so critical to nurturing our mental health because otherwise, we're taught the opposite, right? We're taught to, to put it away and talk about something that's trending on the charts right now.

Dylan Dunlap: I think I am willing to say this now that empathy can be learned, I think a lot of people have that skill set already. And I'm, I'm so envious, you know, there's so much work that goes into my life just to get out of my own head and get out of this place and be a person and be around humans and but to know now that you can teach yourself how to do anything if you really work hard enough. And you genuinely want to, I think there are people that maybe practice empathy on the surface, but have ulterior motive. I love what you said, because I don't think empathy can be explained, it almost feels like and so sorry for this reference. And if you guys have not seen avatar, either of them. But there's like a, I have to be a nerd at least once on this podcast and tell you guys that I see a lot of movies, but there's a serious like, deep message that James Cameron has, has promoted in this series that that only in the series, you can bond by just like connecting those locks of hair. And then you can see each other's past and pain, and everything that they went through. And in that moment. You just know, that's that's the empathy. And again, thank you so much for bearing with me in this analogy, but like, that's not real life, we as human beings cannot immediately understand what the other person has gone through. Hurt people always end up hurting other people. And to the second, I realize that empathy takes time, empathy is like, you got to start somewhere, and build and build a relationship where it can get to a point where you, the other person is comfortable letting you feel their pain. And then you finally have empathy for them for what they've experienced. But it's like the walls that feel like we including me in the past, put up, prevent one another from going deeper and especially as men, I think we lack so much empathy because of that because of those walls. And I'm grateful to know that this isn't my strong suit whatsoever, but I'm willing to talk about it with you guys. And I'm willing to say I'm a student in learning about it. And I think I'm succeeding in learning and taking notes. That's something I feel successful and that's Yeah, man. I just want to learn how to connect with people better, right? If I take the weakness the thing that I I suck at and just like make it Make it some strong suit. Hopefully.

Dave Tamkin

So many times I've heard people say that, oh, people don't change. And I don't agree with that at all, I think you can change. And if you can't, then what's the point and anything. So if you can make the effort to be better, and to show up to life differently to make your life, just something worth living, that that's the goal. Every time I hear that people don't change, I just I feel bad for the person who thinks that way.

Dylan Dunlap 15:05

I think the person that says that I have empathy for them, you need to say that I practice empathy for them, too. I think I think what that person is saying in that moment, is, unfortunately, true, maybe, but we don't have to. It's like, I look at my cyclical generational Shakespearean bloodline. That is the three men that exist. Grant grant, Father, Ron, who found out that I'm, like, half Jewish when I was born, and wrote a letter to my mother and told her to get rid of me. And, and just like the work, just bigotry, everything you could think of, right? There's that there's my father, and there's, and there's me, and that's it. And, and it scares me, it scares me to death, knowing where I come from because of that. But even if they can't change, or can't is the wrong word, I'm sorry, won't, will not. Even if these two men change, and they're the only representation, they're the only men that I'm related to, right? I can. And I can represent that change can happen. So I think like, when people say what you just told me, I think they're coming from a place that's like me telling you, my, my father is never going to change, and I'm probably right in that. But I don't have to live my life going off of what you said, I don't have to, I can separate that. And define, if I want to change and if I don't want to change, and I think a lot of us tend to perpetuate generational behavior. I just, I for some reason, I have a level of self awareness at this point in my life, where I got to pump the brakes, and put some walls up and not hate myself for doing that. And, and be the change that I want to see. You know that that cheesy quote, of being the change you want to see in the world. It's one of my favorites. I mean, that's the only way out now, right? If I look at this, the men that I'm connected to the only way out is if I join them, which sounds so cinematic, you know, dramatic, but like they made it that way to to make this like they went 25 years without speaking and now we're coming up on 10 years since my dad took off and like I'm not going to put somebody into this world someday and do that. But I'm also not going to allow the rest of my life to not have peace because there is zero change in peace over there. So I appreciate what you said because that kind of like unlocked a thought in my brain.

Dave Tamkin

Well you articulated that much better than I did so I'm glad I'm glad I did that for you, that was epic

Chris Webb:

well and in to tie this into kind of the the money conversation today too is that we also pass on the money mindset from generation to generation and you know, some of the books I've been reading have gotten me to identify that I have some habits with money that are likely coming from my great grandparents when they went through the Great Depression and and you know it's passed on those habits those those reactions to certain situations with money pass on and a lot of that has to do with scarcity you know, a lot of lot of us feel scarcity and that doesn't come from necessarily our own childhood but from generations. There's other studies coming out now too that are that are really saying how we we continually pass those things on subconsciously of course right like we're not Yeah, we don't know we're telling our kids to be worried about money necessarily but then when we're worried about buying you know, you know our groceries that week that's what the communication is naturally to be passed on is that you there's certain things to worry about. I do want to transition that into asking you a couple questions about your money mindset within the music business. Have you found that back on track so glad you brought it back on track.

Dylan Dunlap:

So back to money. What was your last tax return? look like? Are you are you making money

Chris Webb

I struggle with this because it's this topic of money often is so not artistic, you know? And it's it's funny because but it's so involved in our ability to succeed. I want to focus on like the value that Plan brings to the music business and, and that how financial plans and goals and intentions at least, are so critical. Like, what were some of the things that you've laid out for yourself? You know, you don't have to talk about the numbers, obviously. But we wanted to kind of know like, how do you go about making sure you're getting to the goals financially to keep you doing what you want to do and having the time to spend 21 days straight and making music?

Dylan Dunlap

I'm going to answer this question with something I've not shared with anybody yet. I've operated as, as this LLC don't allow music. And I've operated over the last two and a half years, having been signed to a label. And I'm very grateful for that opportunity. But I'm thankful to now say that I'm launching my own record label. And I will be signing myself if, you know, just imagine the photoshopped photo of me shaking my own hand. Anyways, the reason why I'm telling you this is because I think I'm now in a position where I can, I can do this the way I've envisioned my entire life. But a lot of that's owed to how I treated the last two and a half years being under the label, and the pandemic hitting at the same time, the same month of deciding to partner up was when the world shut down. And what I'm going to share in terms of how I my relationship with money, I'm going to give a disclaimer that this is not necessarily the healthiest approach for your personal life. Yeah, but I'm, I'm really happy to say that every dollar that label advanced, went directly back in the second I, my ceiling rose from being an independent artist in 2019, getting a song that got some traction in Europe and then signing this deal that made sense at the time. The second that happened, my ceiling rose a bit. And I realized, I want to be very mindful and smart.

If I have more access to resources, if I have more access to whatever as I'm getting to those label, right? I want to be very smart with it. And I spent this entire pandemic, giving it my 100% and sacrificing every step of the way for the greater good of the art. And I for that I got to work with one of the most incredible mixing engineers in the world who has done all of my favorite Coldplay albums. And it's true that I've gotten to work with so many amazing people. And it's, it's been lovely, but but now that I own officially finally like I'm I am owning my own business, I am so excited to compartmentalize the importance of paying for this roof over my head. And I think that's a common misconception when you see somebody's like numbers grow a little bit there are these thoughts you have about their lifestyle and getting the Maserati, like you say, but but the truth is like, I don't like sharing about money online. And I don't like sharing about business cease drama, like I keep my head down. And I figure it out. And that goes back to street performing. I made $6. And I figured it out. I when I didn't have a manager, I stared at Google at Starbucks and lie to came up with a name and found somebody to email and just lied as a manager. And you'd kind of just like, adapt. And I'm still adapting. And I'm I haven't prioritized me in a very long time. And so that's the thing.

I'm looking forward to moving forward and this new year, I think that's something we're all really scared to admit is that you remove this survivalist mentality that like you need that money, you need all of that, that that record events, I think I've prevented a lot of ego from from developing about the way I see my music because of this is because I'm willing to go as many 1000s of dollars in debt on my credit card today. for the betterment of what it is we are doing. Yeah, and I don't think I'm owed by the world. Or you said something earlier about like you, I guess technically like being the customers, right, you are listening you are in the listening and generating the pennies of revenue right for me, right. But like, I've been able to bypass a lot of these things that would make me quit. And I think it's just because I didn't join any, like I kind of did my own thing. And I've kept to myself, and never complained about money publicly. And like I'm still here, and that's the only thing I know I'm ranting right now, but the truth is all I can all I should tell you is that I'm I the only way to know if it's working is if like I look around and is it still working right now and it is and yeah, I'm truly I have no idea because of how much we've just put directly into the the quality of the music. It's I can't believe I'm here, right?

But we I mean, would you say that you've always felt like you've had enough. Is that something that that you've ever done? had to question.

Chris Webb:

But we I mean, would you say that you've always felt like you've had enough. Is that something that that you've ever done? had to question.

Dylan Dunlap 26:05

I'm willing to admit that I've always had enough now. Yeah. And I know I mean, I think that growing up in an environment where, especially the fact that the value of $1 to my father in the way he taught, it was like he groomed me to become a film composer to basically take over his business someday. And, and just the idea of money was so distorted to me as a child, and he made it so I never saw any of the money that I was owed legally for helping them out on the film, composing side but as a minor and all this stuff, and like, it made me realize, like, there's so much negativity revolving around money. And I'm sure you guys know Los Angeles pretty well, I'm sure you are understanding and how people operate. This is a, this is a terrifying place to try and trust somebody to try and trust people and build a team.

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Action:

1. Go do something that is just for you and your mental health. 

   i.e. hike, walk, meditation, journal or jump in an ice bath like Dave and I.

Ways to connect with us:

Dylan Dunlap info: https://iamdylandunlap.com/

Email is at: Musicians Tip Jar@gmail.com

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As always, Thanks for joining us and remember there is already enough for everyone, you just need to know how to get it.  Until next time, on behalf of Dave Tamkin and myself, Chris Webb. Stay happy, healthy and wealthy…There is more than one way to skin a catalog of music.

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*Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax legal business or financial professional for individualized advice. Individual results are not guaranteed and all discussed strategies have the potential for profit and loss. Those are operating on behalf of musicians Tip Jar LLC exclusively.