77. Should You be Releasing Your Own Music NFTs
season 3, episode 17
Episode: 77
Welcome to Musicians Tip Jar, where we talk about musicians and money. Today we learn what the true meaning and potential of NF TS might be for the modern independent artist. I'm Chris Webb, joined by my co host and the guy who wants told me that music NF TS actually was notoriously funky tablature Dave Tamkin
Dave Tamkin
Are you saying that’s not what it stands for?
Chris Webb
It’s got a nice ring to it.
Quote of the week
“Most places you can carve your own niche and make full time music income work." Josh Pearson
For over twenty years, composer / guitarist / vocalist Josh Pearson has created a growing network and fanbase in the jam band culture. As founding member of Moving Matter, A Live One, Touch of Trey & HeartByrne, Josh brings an uplifting element of surprise with his playful and melodic improvisation. Josh Pearson strives to change the world, one note at a time with his pop jam style music. His catchy pop songs, reminiscent of John Mayer & Eric Clapton, lend way to funky, jazzy improvisation heavily influenced by his love for Phish & the Grateful Dead.Pearson continues to write and record new material while consistently building his brand and online presence. With hundreds of shows and thousands of hours of playing, Josh has become an outstanding artist.
Non-profit of the week
HAAM has helped 6,700 musicians across seven counties access over $144 million in healthcare services since we began in 2005.
Services include routine dental work, doctor visits and prescriptions, psychiatric counseling sessions, eye exams, out-patient procedures,
specialist referrals, hearing screenings, basic needs assistance, and more.
Chris Webb
Well, today we complete our conversation with Austin, Texas musician Josh Pearson. We discussed the many ways that FTS, could be a big part of the music in the future, and ways that you can use these ideas right now to make some new revenue streams for your music. Today's quote comes from our guest Josh, he said most places you can carve your own niche and make a full time music income work.
Dave Tamkin
This week's nonprofit is something that Chris Webb does not like to carve. Ham provides access to affordable health care for greater Austin's low income working musicians. With a focus on prevention and wellness. Many Austin musicians are self employed and have no access to health insurance or basic health care. They often work multiple jobs as you know and struggle to pay for basic needs such as food, clothing and shelter with nothing left for health care. Ham has helped over 6700 musicians across seven counties access over 144 million in health care services since they began in 2005. Services include routine dental work, doctor visits and prescriptions psychiatric counseling sessions, eye exams, outpatient procedures, specialist referrals, hearing screenings, basic needs existence and much much more. Ham is spelled H A M M. So check out my ham.org and have been
Chris Webb
a lot of them would need a lot less health care access.
Dave Tamkin
So opening up a door that in 76 episodes we have not gone through I think we should have a podcast on just being healthy one of these days.
Chris Webb
This is a good program. There's there's this is definitely necessary. And and you know on a side note with this, sometimes when I'm talking about with my wife about her not keeping the same job. If she wants to make a change, we have to figure out the healthcare you know what I mean? That's the way that we have it worked out is that I don't have to buy individual health care from myself and my wife or my kids because her business her her employer provides it. So this is a wonderful thing and really necessary for musicians sometimes to take the leap confidently into a full time position, especially if you have dependents. But back to our regular program. Do you own any NF TS which actually stands for non fungible tokens? Unfortunately, Yeah,
Dave Tamkin
shut up. Shut your butt.
Chris Webb
Have you created any or thought about them at all? Do you have your own type of a one of a kind offers that you give to your fans. Let's jump back in with our guest Josh Pearson about how he sees the future going with NF TS as well as some other creative ways that you can increase your income.
Josh Pearson
have gotten heavily into NF TS just card collecting. I'm big into card physical card collecting the hobby. And when the pandemic baseball
Chris Webb
and football cards and stuff totally Yeah, when the pandemic
Josh Pearson
hit right around then my parents were moving to Florida full time from St. Charles, Illinois. And I needed to go get all my baseball and basketball cards. It was all in boxes and I had a lot of them. I had some nice stuff too. And when I went up there I'm like man, I can't travel with all these bags. We drove up there my wife and I drove up there and I was like let me see if I can find a collector there. So I posted on Facebook and Craigslist and a collector from Batavia, Illinois hit me up and said yeah, let me come check him out. He bought almost all my collection except for one box is when my best stuff, but some of the stuff I sold was stuff I'd spent years putting together this 1986 FLIR basket I'll set one of them very, very, really nice set. I had the whole set, and that's Jordans rookie card. But I told him I didn't have the Jordan, you know, because I didn't want him to even know I had it. Because I took that when I was on this day, I still have that car as my favorite card. Oh, man, anyways, he bought everything, and I have such a seller's remorse. Like, I just didn't, I wish I hadn't sold it, you know, he was a fair price, it was a good deal on everything. He's really nice guy. But I just, you know, you I had started that collection. I was like, you know, eight years old, nine years old, and held it for all this time, just to like, just let it go. And I'm really good to about minimalistic living, and letting go of things. And, you know, so I'm good with that. But this was a hard one to let go totally. So I started researching the cars essentially, as long as there's original cars, and falling back in love with it. And then I started buying them again. And then my good friend PJ Collins, you know, PJ, he's huge into and he starts seeing me post in the Facebook groups, he's like, calls me up, we start talking. So he starts teaching me all this stuff about it. So I heavily got into physical card collecting. And then right at that time, and fts for cards came out, which people don't know what that is, it's just a digital version of a card. And I started getting into that a lot, you know, when you buy somebody flip some and like most of it, for me is just a hold long term, but I have made gains, you know, buying and selling some of those, and they're just listed for sale on the site. So sometimes, you know, income will come from that.
Chris Webb
That's cool. I mean, I, I've been to the card store a few times in the last couple of weeks, because my son is really getting into football card collecting. And you know, he's, he's, he's really, he's understanding it a lot more than I do. And I can't believe how much there is to it. Like the different brands, different symbols on the cards, and how any sort of little mark destroys the value. And
Josh Pearson
that's everything I learned. And PJ really helped kind of show me that and teach me that. And it is nuts how it became it's a billion dollar industry now. So the card companies got smarter, we collected them, they just printed them on demand. So if those stores sold out, they're like, Okay, we're gonna print more, which was foolish, because all most of those cars are worthless from like, 85 to like 95 or 96, like, so there's some gems, but they're not like high dollar amounts, but then the car companies got smarter, like, we're gonna number these cars, we're gonna create only 100 of certain ones, only 10 of certain ones. And then there's one, one of one, so you can open a pack and get a one on one, Patrick mahomes that is worth, you know, $100,000, like the cards are selling for, you know, 1000s of dollars. Now it's not. And so it's like really exciting to be opening these packs. But the problem was that when there's big money like that, the people that rip these packs learn this, and they wait in line at the stores to buy up all the packs, and it's hard to go and find them. It's kind of cool down, it peaked out a couple years ago. And it's cooled down. So you can kind of start finding packs. But when this was happening, I was like, Man, I just want to rip packs again, I could never find them. So when the NFT came up, and empties came out, you could buy those and you could rip them they're digital. So I really started having fun with that. And I highly suggest it to anybody that's into card collecting. Because you don't have to worry about it getting damaged, don't have to store it anywhere. You can trade with a click of a button, you can sell it with a click of a button. Like it's just so easy. And it's really fun to do. But a lot of people are like, Oh, I can just screen shot it, you know, and I have it too. And it's like, yeah, you have a picture of it, but you don't hold the blockchain. That is the real life. That's where the asset lives. And that's where a lot of people are having a hard time understanding how could something digitally be an asset. And as that pivots more to where people start to understand that I think the NFT thing is gonna blow up. in all regards. I think you're gonna be using NF T's every day of your life, you know, in the near future.
Chris Webb
Yeah. Well, you are seeing that in the art world too, for sure. I mean, people are, are figuring out that, especially with like visual art. There can be collected collectibles and NF T's, you know, it seems like they should have, they should have collectible cards for artists, for musicians. You know, I've
Josh Pearson
been, I've been wanting to do that. And like you there should somebody should, you would have to go and get rights and license it through the individual musicians. And then you'd have to find a rad graphic designer that designs these cards and just do it as an MIT. But I think there is I think that's a great idea.
Chris Webb
Yeah, there's a market there for sure. Because somebody would love to collect the number one Trey Anastasio Dorn,
Josh Pearson
one of one Jerry Garcia card, like get out of here.
Chris Webb
Come on, it sounds like smart, easy to make. And you almost think that you could do that with music and other ways to like limit your supply to raise the value if the demand is there. Total.
Josh Pearson
That is what some musicians were doing. They were only releasing like 1000 So it's like number two 1000. And, you know, the album was still always on Spotify. But it's like with this 1000 If you bought it and there's different price ranges, you get these other perks, which is like, you get this, this digital NFT, that was something made a cool creative thing that comes with it. But for the person that holds this NFT, you know, you can write different contracts into it like now you get 10% off any merch you buy through me for the rest of your life. Or you could, you could put it for a couple years, where it can be like you get, you know, discounts for my tickets for any tickets I put on sale, or you get first rights to tickets like you that's the cool thing about NF T's is you can write in any sort of contractual agreement you want to this digital, you know, ID. And so that's where it's going to be very powerful in the future to where it's the utility of these NF T's are what it's about is not necessarily a cool image, which is cool in and of itself to have. But that's the same, that's where, you know, the physical collecting stops, there's no, there's no utilities tied in, it's just the appreciation of holding this cool thing and seeing this cool thing physically. But with NF T's, like, you know, you can think of it as simple as like, say you purchase something in a store, and every receipt they give out is an NF T to where it's like, Hey, keep this receipt, and you now have access to like a 10% coupon for your next purchase, or like something which like, they print that stuff on the back of a lot of receipts, but it could also be designed to where it's like cool, and if you hold it, or it could be a lifelong thing to and to where it gives value to these sort of Everyday Things that we just discard all the time. Totally. And it requires sort of the seller to be creative about it, right. But But think about it, if you're smart enough to where it's a receipt, and you make a cool look. And like they're not just gonna throw it away, like they're gonna hold it, when somebody holds something, it starts to gain value, and they see it and that keeps you relevant with them, because they are keeping that receipt, like kinda like a business card idea, but how about this, like, give out a business card, this is not just the business card, this is an NFT, that if you you know, log into this thing and type in this sort of code here that's on the business card, you have access to this digital NFT, you now that you own. And with this digital NFT, you have, you know, you get access to whatever it is, you know, you got to round it out. But
Chris Webb
that just reminded me to at the end of one of my students shows she had recorded the whole show, and she pre sold the live recording of the show. And she limited how many people would buy so you could buy, you know, only at the show. And I think I've seen a couple of bands do that to where they record the show. And at the end of the show, you can buy a copy and walk out, you know that they'll they print out those CDs. Now they probably just put it on a drive, but they you can physically buy that performance at the end of that show. And it's a great way for artists to make some more money from the same show.
Josh Pearson
Yeah, that's awesome. It's brilliant. I mean, I'm pretty sure he was doing that fish was like one of the first bands that really got really successful doing that. And like, I think every artist probably should be doing some sort of version of that. Yeah. Because there are the people and they come up to me alone. They're like, man, do you guys record your show? Did you record that show like that Mike Song and our whatever song, they're like, that was so good. And like, the way your music, your creation, whatever it is, in the moment affects somebody else in that moment is completely unique. And completely, you know, it can be blowing their universe were like, I want something to remember this moment by. And if you don't have it available for them, then it's just you know, it's going to kind of pass by that opportunity just passes by.
Dave Tamkin
Yeah. And Chris, one of the questions, you know, we have is, Do you feel any of these revenue streams are especially, you know, accessible in this genre of music. And that is one thing with jam bands. Every night is different, every night is unique. So having those recordings is what makes it you know, or having that style of music and recording that specific moment in time is what makes it so unique. It's not like listening to an album, that, you know, they're gonna play the same every single time you go out to see him.
Josh Pearson
Exactly. I mean, the Grateful Dead sort of coined that whole idea to were collectors, you know, friends had 1000s of their tapes, ya know, and then fish carried on with fish because everyone wants to have that unique moment, every show is completely unique. I mean, that's, that's why I love the jam band philosophy. Because of that, right there. The fact that you know, any given night is completely in and of itself unique is, as is life, you know, and as is like say any band that plays the same song the exact same way. Every moment is still unique, but it's just not as discernible or you know, it's now like that's, and that's another reason that's a huge point to why I am able and comfortable to play in tribute bands half of the night is improv half of the night is my freedom of expression, right? And if I was playing in a band that was the same night, same song, same way over and over every night, it would probably have to be for some really, really good note variety or for the money? Because I think I would get really put off retired
Dave Tamkin
that. Yeah. You mentioned in the shows where you live is definitely different climate than St. Charles and coming from the wooden, you know, Midwest and Mount Prospect Arlington Heights area. How do you navigate the challenges of irregular income? Like as an artist? And how do you plan for like those periods of lower financial stability?
Josh Pearson
Yeah, so it was very hard coming from Fort Collins to Austin. Austin is a mecca of music. And there is musicians and bands playing all over the place every day. And there's the greatest touring national touring acts coming through here almost every night. For real, it is nuts how much good music comes through here. And because of that, it is very easy to get sort of just, you know, non existent, sort of over, over washed by all that great stuff. So, you know, figuring that aspect out, like how do you figure it out, wherever you're at whatever city you're at whatever market figured out your regions, like find the venues, find the breweries, the distilleries, the places that sort of have a decent built in crowd that will pay you, you know, to put on to this, they don't pay for tickets, they just have a free shows, and they'll pay you three to 500, sometimes 1000s of dollars to play there. And you're not reliant upon having to bring people that was really sort of helpful. And that's been really helpful right now, finding little markers and gems like that, for me playing solo. And there's like the airport gig I play at the airport. And Austin has been really rewarding. They've, they've developed programs with the city to make the airport to make I believe that was told me it's any establishment in the airport that serves food, like hot food, has to hire so many hours of live music a week at their establishment. And it's like, it pays like $150 a gig. And then you can get tips, I think they range and pay. Sometimes it's duels, there's also a place where there's a mainstage with a full band, and sure that pays more. But so you know, you find these little circuits to get in with and then you know, the the booking person for that sky name, Michael paddock who's super kind, super generous, and he does his best to let the local musicians fill slots, you know, and I play there like once every three weeks. And, you know, it's just guaranteed income during the day, usually when I'm not playing gigs, anyways, stuff like that. I just played a residency at a place called Easy Tiger, which again, I don't know how they're able to sort of do it because it's like, I play nobody's there for the music. Nobody, you know, but they pay well, and they appreciate it. And it's like this really cool thing you find these sorts of niches were in Austin, I think there's a lot of those, you know, versus like St. Charles, there's probably only like a few places to play in St. Charles, there's a different suburbs. But the nice thing about that area, there's a lot of suburbs, you can travel 20 minutes away and find that gem and that city, you know, we go to Chicago an hour away. And there's a lot there. So it's like you need to really sort of find those gems in your area within your radius, you know, pick a radius, like, Hey, I only want to travel within two hours or within an hour. And then really get online and start scoping out. You know, different like breweries are really good restaurants do this type of thing. Cafes, you know, distilleries where they want to have live music. And you know, they just want to have it as a perk is a cool thing. Yeah, for people to have when they're visiting their brewery.
Chris Webb
Yeah. Yeah. And I think you're right that, you know, you you can't, a lot of people don't want to have to move for the sake of being an artist full time. You know, like, not everyone wants to live in LA or live in New York. They don't, they don't want to that doesn't fit who they are, you know. So this is a great example of how you, I mean, that's not to say that Austin isn't like a Mecca in its own way, but totally, but you don't want to have to move to make it work. Sometimes. It's really the thing.
Josh Pearson
100% I would imagine in most places, you can carve a niche for yourself and figure it out. You do have to be creative, but I would imagine this there unless it's very, like super rural. Of course, there's places you know, in the middle of Texas, where it would be really tough, I think, but a lot of places. Yeah. And then the other thing too, you know, not just moving but like traveling around the country, like that used to be the tried and true way to make it as a musician was going on tour. And you know, it's just exhausting. It is so much work to go on tour. And you hear it from the big artists to like, even some of the bigger artists are like, man, just having this whole crew semis all these people to manage, you know, they're not managing it, but like you still have to be conscientious of everybody like it's a team. So it's just it weighs on you. And I know John Mayer, like the solo tour recently like other people are starting to just do solo tours was just down because it's like, the the amount of sort of pressure just as like gets taken down totally.
Chris Webb
Which takes a different different set of skills to be up there by yourself. I remember watching Ed Sheeran, you know, play in those massive soccer stadiums and, you know, do it like 100,000 people, and I'm like, How is this one person controlling so much sound and energy in such a huge amount of space with so many people, it's an incredible talent.
Josh Pearson
He's one of the best hidden he that's what I'm trying to get more into. Like, definitely that style of looping, and singing and playing by myself. But then incorporating, you know, jamming out over those loops, which he doesn't do too much. His is pretty sad. Yeah, the stuff he does, but it's incredible. And I think how you get to that is you do it on your own, and you get really good at it on your own and on your own in front of smaller groups of people, hundreds, you know, eventually equates to 1000s. It's like, he just became so comfortable doing that. And you know, it that reflects when he's up there like he's like, Man, this guy is he's a force of nature totally in that regard. So that way, you can really influence you know, 1000s of people.
Dave Tamkin
I highly recommend his new documentary on Disney, if you haven't seen it yet.
Josh Pearson
Yeah, I haven't I saw the site that I'm gonna watch. And I'm a big fan of his,
Chris Webb
you know, we asked all of our guests what they're reading or what they would recommend to other artists. In regards to any of the stuff we've covered today. Do you have any books or audiobooks that you would recommend?
Josh Pearson
Yeah, the one I'm currently reading, I haven't been reading very much, which is I want to read more. And until I want to express how important it is to read. And it's probably one of the greatest ways for us to grow as humans. Anyways. It's called Becoming supernatural. By Dr. Joe Dispenza. Oh, yeah. And I'm really big into kind of self help, self help stuff.
Chris Webb
I just bought that book.
Dave Tamkin
And I've read it. It's awesome. Yeah, phenomenal. It's so good.
Josh Pearson
And I love how, like a lot more of this line of thinking is coming out in the world. Now I like how important it is to sort of, you know, really visualize and think and reprogram the way we think about the world in ways that we want to create what we're thinking about in the world. You know, our reality is really starts with our thoughts. And it's incredibly powerful. And it is, it is mind boggling, you know, when I talk with people, or you know, even just one offs with conversations with people, like at a gas, or wherever it is, how limiting we are of ourselves, like, we use the word don't or like, it's just so many things, we say just in our normal vocabulary that is like that's a limiting thought, that's a limiting thought it was like, oh, there's a positive thought. But then there's like 10 more limiting thoughts. Like we've all been programmed to sort of be beaten down. And, you know, I wish for the world. I'm really big into that stuff. I my wife is a life coach, health coach. And I love that line of thinking and I hope to see the world grow in that way. Dr. Joe Dispenza is one of the best Wayne Dyer is really a Tony Robbins like there's so many of them out there now, that really you know, focus on reprogramming your thoughts in order to create a more fulfilling meaningful life. And that's what that program did that center point program does is forces you to completely reprogram and it just there's nothing that can, the only thing that can happen from that is like your entire reality shifts like my life. From that moment, I started that program. I didn't say that, but I was having panic attacks. Every you know, almost every day in my sleep I was having it was just, it got to a point was like I have to make a change, or it's going to be the enemy. And so this program within six months, no more panic attacks. And then from then on, my relationship started blossoming, my financials started blossoming, my music started blossoming, my career like everything from that point on, just continued to get better. And it all was from really reprogramming your subconscious thoughts, which is not an easy thing to do. But it's doable. No, that's
Chris Webb
amazing. That's really cool. And I you know, it's funny, because I found him originally because I was playing at a hotel that he was at. He was doing a conference and not that I met him, but all of his attendees were I was like, Why is everybody so nice to me right now? Why are they all coming over to me? People were dropping $100 bills in my tip jars. Like what is happening here? Yeah. And then I found out that they were all there for his conference. And I was like, well, now I have to read his book. And ever since I've read three of his books, you know, it's Yeah.
Dave Tamkin
And Josh At first he thought he's like, I'm killing it. I'm in the zone
Josh Pearson
was good. Yeah, but there's another thing too. What a nice gesture and people don't understand this when somebody comes up with $1 puts anything in that tip jar. It is emotional, soulful fuel for us as artists. I don't think people understand how vulnerable space is He is up there for us in a moment to do it. And when somebody you know, even comes by and says Hi, like sounds good, or any little, you know, example of notification that they noticing,
Dave Tamkin
not have a head or tip of a hat, you know, in the background or when they're leaving, they just say, Hey, I, you know, I see you, I've heard you.
Josh Pearson
Yeah, so smile, I play the airport, and people just walk by, but I'm smiling if they're playing, and if I catch them, and they smile is beautiful, but a lot of times, you know, you'll smile at them. And they'll just turn their head and walk away, walk straight path. And it's always so my Miley and I did a post about this, like, kids, kids, they'll just, they can't help but turn and look and stare. And a lot of times they smile, but they they're just fascinated by it. But adults were so beaten down. Like, that's the most amazing thing, and somebody is creating this music right here in front of you. But you're just gonna walk by like, nothing's happened. And like, it's so bizarre how we've become so groomed to just ignore the most beautiful moments in our life. You know, the old amazing things going on. You know, we're all guilty of it. Life's wildlife are pretty fast.
Chris Webb
Yeah. And it's hard to be in the present moment, so often, yeah, with our lives. And that's what I experienced when I see that as I'm like, I always try to give that empathy, like we started this conversation about learning empathy. And I have reprogram myself to always, whenever I see somebody totally ignore me or be rude even more, I always go, I bet they're dealing with this, or I bet I bet this is what they're going through. And I changed my, my anger into empathy. And I feel like it helps me to let go of that, you know,
Josh Pearson
that is beautiful. I was just saying that somebody was so angry at this other person. And I'm like, I get it, I'd be right there with you, I get really angry too. But the moment you turn it to empathy and love, like, it'll serve you better, you're gonna get more out of that relationship, or that whatever communication you're having with that person in that moment, right. And that that was what that Holocene, the center point would talk about to like, you know, you can never control anybody else ever. You can always control your action and the way you control yourself, you can always, you know, usually get the best out of certain situations by really becoming, you know, a Jedi of your emotions. But everyone's you know, says, Life shore, you know, whatever. But this is it, man, life's long. We're here for a long time, like, soak it up, do all the stuff you want to do, like, lifelong, you know, enjoy it. Right? Yeah, if it was so short, like, it is really short, I get that saying like you weren't here and gone in a blip. But, you know, if you're lucky to be here, 3040 years, that's a long time, you know, 80 years, like 90 100 years, there's a lot we can do. Yeah, you should enjoy it,
Musicians are leveraging the power of non-fungible tokens (NFTs) to revolutionize fan engagement. By issuing unique digital assets on blockchain technology, musicians can offer fans a plethora of exclusive experiences and content. Here are some of the most popular NFTs that musicians can provide:
Music and Albums: In a groundbreaking move, the band Kings of Leon released their album "When You See Yourself" as an NFT[2][4]. Fans who purchased the NFT version of the album were offered exclusive content.
Artwork: Musicians like Grimes have sold tokenized versions of their digital art alongside their music
Membership Clubs: Some artists have used NFTs as virtual membership clubs that confer certain access rights and benefits for token holders. These privileges might include exclusive access to concerts, meet-and-greets, and other fan engagement opportunities
Limited Edition Merchandise: Artists can create NFTs for exclusive real-world merchandise. This adds a layer of digital ownership to physical items, giving them extra value in the eyes of fans.
Fan Tokens: These tokens can grant fans special privileges such as early access to tickets, participation in fan club events, and even a say in certain decisions related to the artist's career
Music Videos or Performances: These NFTs can capture unique performances or music videos that are not available elsewhere.
Tokenized "Moments": Musicians could tokenize specific moments from their careers, such as a memorable live performance or the release of a significant album.
Augmented Reality Experiences: Musicians can offer NFTs that unlock unique augmented reality experiences, such as a personal concert or special effects.
Musicians use various marketplaces to sell these NFTs, some of which include OpenSea, SuperRare, Nifty Gateway, Mintable, and Async Music among others
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As always, thanks for joining us, and remember, there is already enough for everyone, you just need to know how to get it. Until next time, on behalf of Dave Tamkin and myself, Stay happy, healthy, and wealthy. Be the instrument playing the sound of your life as it’s happening.
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