Musician's Guide to Farming the Little Things with Aimee Giese

We were so lucky to get some time with Aimee Giese and pick her brain on some really great ideas and tactics that musicians and bands can be doing everyday, quickly and for little or no cost. Little things that can build great results. We also cover when it’s time to hire a PR person, what an impactful EPK looks like and some important advice on sowing the seeds of relationships with music business professionals.

0:00:01.7 S2: Welcome to the show that explores the methods and strategies on Rockin the financial side of your music business with over 40 years combined experience.

0:00:11.3 S1: Here are your host, Chris Webb and Dave tank. Welcome to estate, we talk about messes and money, we want you to see the little things you plan can lead to the biggest opportunities to make meaningful progress and growth. I'm your host, Chris Webb, joined by my co-host and the biggest artist who hasn't forgotten as little people... Dave, Danny, I'm 56. You're taller than I am. This week's quote is from Matt even a lot of politicians, I feel like I put a lot of politicians, and I don't do that intentionally, I guess they just say smart things. He says, Well, it may seem small. The ripple effects of small things are extraordinary, we were so lucky to get some time with a GC and pick your brain on some really great ideas and tactics that musicians and bands can do every day quickly, and for little or no money, little things can build the great results. We also cover when it's time to hire a PR person, what an impact for EP K looks like, and some important advice on sowing the seeds of relationships with music business professionals. We will cover all of that, Mr, right after this.

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0:03:01.8 S1: Make sure you rate and subscribe for this podcast and leave us to come go to our website, we've been adding a ton of new content and great deals and helpful resources, we also have a free weekend newsletter that you could sign up for and receive even deeper, deep do you can go deeper to death's true related articles and helpful resources for your music business, so without further ado, let's get to this wonderful interview with an in gay... Any easy is a graphic designer, web developer, social media strategist, photographer, blogger, and non-sleeper from Denver. She used to go on a multi-media development firm that created large-scale health education research projects, but has been freelance and remote for the past decade. Her blog, grease dot com, celebrated its 15th anniversary last November, and while she started out as a parent blogger, she primarily focuses on music, concert, photography and travel. Now, welcome to the podcast, Ames.

0:04:09.5 S2: Thank you, thank you for having me.

0:04:11.3 S1: Amy, I have to say, I've been a fan of your website for quite a while, not only just as a music fan and enjoy your writing, but as a musician, and PR is our sponsor for the show today, so I know you work with Dan, is great. She's fantastic to work with, and I just wanted to say thank you very much for always being there to support our local music community. Thank you.

0:04:37.1 S2: I love our Denver and Colorado music scene, and it's... One of the things that started me on moving my site to music was being involved, and actually I used to run a fundraiser for my son's elementary school, and that's how I started getting to know local musicians, and so it's such a pleasure to have that as a group of friends and then also kind of co-workers for my site

0:05:02.2 S1: Was is today's topic is about how musicians need to spend more time doing the little things and being... Sure to follow through with their goals. Let's talk a little bit more about your background and then dive into some of the strategies for musicians to improve their business growth, so you said real quick that you started doing with some event planning. Yeah, can you tell us a little bit more about how it became part of the music business?

0:05:27.8 S2: Yeah, so I just started my blog, as most people did 15 years ago, is just a place to record my life and share things with family in other places, and then I kinda hit that wave of mom bloggers, which was fantastic, but there came a point where my son asked to not be included as much, he... At point, he was around sixth grade when they started Googling each other and they all found stories about them, so I did a big cleanse of the site at that point, but I'd always done photography, I always loved music. And then, like I said, we started running this fundraiser for his elementary school, and that's how I would start to shoot local bands, and then it just... The site evolved to where it's now, like I said, more music and travel-related, it's still a lifestyle blog, it's not... I always tell PR people that in my case, I'm not a review site, I'm more of from the position of a fan, but I've been really lucky to kind of find that niche for myself and kinda grow and be able to photograph national shows and travel to photograph festivals and cover them.

0:06:44.5 S2: And so it's about a good 25% to 35% of my work, and then my other side is that I do web design and graphic design for clients, and kind of coming from that background of... That's what I went to school for.

0:07:02.2 S1: And with your experience, we try to always make comparisons to how the music business is very parallel to so many other businesses when it comes to how the structure of your business needs to be built. So I'm curious about your experience with the health industry business that you had with the web website, how that might connect to the music business in ways that might be applicable to some musicians...

0:07:23.5 S2: Well, again, since I don't necessarily... I'm not a health professional, I'm a graphic design professional that now I work with a lot of pediatricians that I do design work for, and so... But the same lessons apply obviously, in terms of the things you have to do for SEO and web development and all those things apply to any client, and so that's nice to be able to, I guess, share the love across, and I do have... I don't have any... Obviously, during the pandemic, I haven't had any music clients, but in the past, I've had clients that have hired me to help them with bands who've helped me hire me to help them with their social media or branding or art work or websites, those kind of things.

0:08:06.6 S1: Do you feel the way that musicians are so DIY now that they should be structuring their businesses with more clear plans and goals, or along the lines of how they're planning and setting their structure, are there any must-dos that you think that aren't being done enough?

0:08:26.5 S2: Yeah, definitely goals is one that I feel like gets missed a lot when I talk to any client, but musicians, because again, it feels like this fun thing, it is a fun profession, but it's also one that you have to lay out what your expectations are, and so that comes with goals, and it could be, you write a list for the next month, the next 12 months, where you wanna play, where you wanna be in terms of your engagement with your social networks, there's a bunch of goals that should be realistically looked at and set and I guess sometimes it seems, I don't know what the right word is, if that's the business-y junk that people don't wanna do, they just wanna make music, but it's really necessary to understand like I'm gonna be a weekend man, and that's all I wanna be, and that's perfectly fine. If that's your goal... And then what do you have to do to achieve those goals? So that's one thing. I do think that a lot of bands that I've worked with, don't Google enough, like there's so much information out there for you to just google any question that you have in mind, and you can find a lot of the answers to it, do your research that way.

0:09:40.1 S2: And then also start tracking that Google Spreadsheets and Google docs are a free way for you to share information among your band, and you should be having a PR list, you should be having a blog or list, you should have these lists of contacts and keep data on how it went, or did the campaign come off successfully? What happened with that? I don't know, I have a bunch of answers. Do you want me to keep going?

0:10:09.1 S1: Well, we do... We ask that everyone looks for the answers to their questions here first and

0:10:14.6 S2: The... Sorry, sorry. Yeah, come here and then search out... Yes.

0:10:19.5 S1: Yes. And find the correct answer on Google. Yes. Yeah, we do spend a lot of time trying to remind everyone that if you don't know what you're really trying to achieve, it's really hard to actually achieve it, right. And it's such a simple thing to say, but some reason in the music industry, I feel like a lot of people... They're so much more emotion-driven.

0:10:44.4 S2: That's with all the arts. It's very hard to think of the arts as a business, but that's really what you should be doing at least about part of it, again, reaching those goals, whether it is, I want to make this my living, or I want to make this my hobby, or whatever it is any of those goals are perfectly fine, it's just... Then you have to go after it in a logical manner.

0:11:06.0 S1: Yeah, we talked about Down and press PR, what are some of the important highlights that you want to have in your press kit, so people don't... Far to know.

0:11:18.7 S2: Right. Well, first of all, one big thing in terms of... First of all, just having a press kit that some people do not have, and again, if there are some people starting out that maybe even can't afford to have a website, but you should always have clear contact in your Facebook page, who's your press contact and whether it's the band themselves, or you actually have a press contact that should be clear, and I find that honestly, sometimes the press kits get off on this esoteric ramble about their shoegaze psychedelic connection with the stars. And I'm like, I don't know what that means, like what does that mean about you as a band? And so it should actually be shorter with more meaningful information and links to your assets in terms of high-resolution photos, links to music, basically links to every piece of information that would be valuable and make it easy for someone to write a post about you, and then again, a description about you is great, but telling me what your music is about, but again, I get these emails that I don't even read because they're so long, and all I want is an intro for sentence paragraph, and then important links to where I can get my assets and get...

0:12:36.8 S2: Get the things I need to make a post

0:12:39.3 S1: And you get a lot of them.

0:12:41.4 S2: A lot of press releases.

0:12:42.7 S1: Yeah, submissions. And that's why I ask 'cause you know what you're looking for... Right out of the gates.

0:12:46.9 S2: Right, well, one thing I will tell you, to be honest, if it doesn't have my name, I delete it. I don't even look at it, because if you can't be bothered to address it to me, then I'm not bothering to read it, even if you have an email list, it should be able to pick up the name of the person that is emailing it to, so you've it's either telling me one, you couldn't be bothered to set up your email list correctly or to you haven't bothered to actually look at my site or figure out why you wanna email me and this... I only have so much time in my day, so little trips like tricks like that, that again, I'll have a lot of people reach out to me and they aren't even following me, and just things like that, that again, it's not that hard to take two extra seconds build your spreadsheet. And then you start a relationship with someone. Relationships, right.

0:13:40.7 S1: Right, exactly. I wanted to ask a little bit more about... A lot of times I feel like what I want this podcast episode to focus on is how people need to be doing a lot of the stuff they're not doing that they can do for free, or what they've already got accessible. So I guess one of the questions I wanna define a little bit more is, when is it time to start paying someone else to do those things, and so that we can kinda say, Am I there then why am I paying somebody? Right.

0:14:08.0 S2: Well, I think some of it is also looking at the strengths of what you have internally, and if it's taking you a million hours to do something, you know again, time is money, and I get it that people don't have a ton of money, bands don't have a ton of money to spend, but if you're willing to spend the extra 5 on a PBR, maybe you wanna spend 5 on a Facebook campaign to reach another 2000 people, you can do these very small micro-campaigns that have a lot of impact. So again, deciding where the value is for comparably small amounts of money, but again, obviously it starts to get more expensive when you actually engage a PR professional, and so to me that's obviously where your goal is to be a professional musician, and you want to get press and you want to book shows and all these types of things, and you don't have the time yourself, and it's worth it, and exchange to pay somebody to do that. I think that's kind of like the border... I obviously, there have been times I've paid people to help me with my web design business because it's something I could do by myself, but it was...

0:15:18.0 S2: I needed to have it done for me, so I think that's true of any business, that you just have to decide where is the breaking point of how much time something is taking you versus how much it would cost to do that thing. Does that make sense?

0:15:30.2 S1: Yeah, absolutely, I know you discussed it, you don't diversifying your team and also to begin up the responsibilities amongst band and how important that is as well

0:15:39.9 S2: Read... Exactly, and I think that's a super important part. I know bands who... One of the people runs the Twitter, one person runs the Instagram, and then they're never crossing, making mistakes of commenting again or duplicating tasks, that's a really easy way to divide things up again, just also looking at what your internal talents are, is there one person that's better at social media and one person is better at the taxes or whatever it is, so again, looking at those tasks and saying Who is good at it, and where would we get the most bang for our book to hire somebody to help us with this business.

0:16:20.1 S1: Which is again, such a parallel to any other business, right, you delegate accordingly to the talents of the crew. Right, right. So what are some other common mistakes that musicians are making when they're trying to promote themselves?

0:16:34.1 S2: Well, the big one I mentioned is the, in PR terms, it's called spray and pray, where you just send out emails to everybody and hope something sticks. I think a better use of your time is, like we said, building relationships, and then I also think that a lot of times people don't understand the difference between average paid advertising, a blogger relationship, or some kind of promotional partnership and PR, where PR press release is, you send to a media outlet. And they can do with it what they will. They can write whatever they want, but you don't pay for it, it's a press release, a blogger relationship kind of crosses that line where you would do that, but perhaps you might be able to build a campaign... I'm having a giveaway right now with a local band where we are doing that, where we're working together as partners, and that's where you might have some impact, some insight or some control over the content, but it's also you're kind of handing it off to that blogger to present to the world for you, and thus, it's a little bit of control and perhaps a little bit money invested, like where you might pay the person, you might send them a t-shirt, you might give them free, take us to your show...

0:17:52.5 S2: These are very cost-effective ways to work a blogger, and then obviously advertising, you have complete control, but it costs the most, so you're actually paying for the advertising, and then you have to have the artwork and all these other things, and again, I feel like there's those three kind of variables that Vance could use depending on, again, with their goals or budget, or all those things that go into it are... Chris.

0:18:18.7 S1: What's that favorite baseball movie? I'm talking about all the time. I feel the dreams is great as a one-man, if you build it, they will come. I don't...

0:18:29.5 S2: It's like we gave me... Well, yeah, I think you're picking up on one of my biggest pet peeves, I mean, I do like that movie, it's... Whatever, it's fine. But if you build it, they will come is such a mentality of Social Media and PR, and you act like if you just put it out there, people will find you, and that is absolutely not true. And you have to know your SEO, you have to have an understanding of keywords that people might search for you and understanding of how all of that works, and again, the effort that you have to put in to possibly promote things. And as I said before, you can invest small amounts of money and get big returns on social media, and so again, I feel like there's this thing that I'll put my music out there and everybody's gonna hear it, but sadly, that's not the fact.

0:19:23.2 S1: Chris and I talk about artists that spend their time and time and passion and love and for music and make these unbelievable singles or songs or albums, and then they just live in a vacuum because they don't take that same time to put it out there in the world and market it and invest the time and doing that as well.

0:19:42.7 S2: Right. And I don't know what the correct percentage is again, and I think it's different for everybody, but there's so much of that that goes into it, I think that fans don't understand, and also again, how much if you do it intelligently, again, spend your time... Smart do smart investment in your social media, meaning time that you spend doing your social media and your marketing, there's a lot of bang for that buck there, so I keep saying that. But it's the truth.

0:20:09.9 S1: So as for the pandemic and what it's done to the music industry, I'm curious about what you think is, what effects it's going to have on the live music scene in the short-term and in the long term...

0:20:22.1 S2: Yeah, it's been a weird year. In R, I think that a lot of people have been adapting really well, it's... I don't wanna say easier because it hasn't been easy on anyone, but it's been somewhat easier and people who are singer-songwriters who are able to just fire up their Instagram Live and perform, it's harder for people who have more of a rock show or bigger bands, things like that. So I'm looking forward to... I actually get my second vaccine shot this weekend, and I'm looking forward to having a little bit more of a normal summer, even though I'm still gonna be cautious of course, but I do think that a lot of people have embraced things that should continue after pandemic that have made it really great like doing Zoom meetings with IT fans or do live Q and As or doing new virtual shows, basically engaging online live or however it might work out. A lot of people have been taking that to heart and finding ways to really connect with fans that way, so I think that's the good thing that's come out of it, and I hope it stays and I hope we continue with some version of virtual concerts.

0:21:32.8 S2: I feel like that's a great add-on to concerts, there are a lot of people who have spoke up in the last year who said they are enjoying because they don't like... Even before pandemic, don't like going out in crowds and have really been enjoying seeing some of these bands play from their couch, so again, I miss the live music myself, but there's a lot of value to some of the adjustments people have made, and I think that a lot of them should continue.

0:21:57.5 S1: I know Live Nation is putting millions of dollars into keeping the live stream... Good.

0:22:02.5 S2: I'm glad to hear that.

0:22:03.1 S1: History going well, and concerts like Red Rocks, I heard retract, they've announced to hold swing shows, but they're gonna be what? 25-

0:22:12.2 S2: 50. Yeah, which again, I think that's also helping people ease back into their comfort zone, because even go into the grocery store is still... I'm gonna get a little weird it out, so I think it's gonna be a process to get back to that festival level, and I'm looking forward to it, I'm looking forward to not being anxious and a huge crowd, because I do love that vibe, but again, it's one of those things where we were the first, concerts were the first to massively shut down and they're gonna be the last to come back on completely because of the things...

0:22:45.5 S1: Inherent. Yeah, that's been my prediction to that, especially the gigs that are like hotel and restaurant gigs, because they're gonna hire their staff back first before they put the entertainment back in place... Right, exactly. But as red races, I actually would love to see a show at 25. Right.

0:23:02.4 S2: Again, I think that's a... Hate all the people that are hurting and the venues of hearing, and I don't mean to sound like that, but it's like I'm loving these kind of less insanely crowded. I've seen probably two or three local shows over the LA course of the last year allow... It's very weird to sit down and have to be in your seat for her rock show, I'll take what I can get...

0:23:23.9 S1: I was gonna say, it's just nice to hear you say even about going shopping, how you might feel a little different than you used to before this and as musicians going to back to gigs and having that feeling before you're getting ready to go out the door and having some anxiety or not just because you haven't played in a long to... But because of that, I get that same thing at safe way down the street, I get a little just on edge and I'm not sure, it's just I'm not used to being around all those lights, all those colors, all those... Right, and that's something physicians need to take some time and pay attention to when they go back to show that it's okay to have those feelings and just ease into it.

0:24:04.7 S2: Agree. And again, personally, I think you guys know I broke my arm in January, and so I'm having this massive easing back in emotionally and physically, so I tended to show last week and I didn't photograph it because my arm's not ready yet, but at the same time, it was like, I don't think I was emotionally ready to do it. So again, I agree with you, there's a lot of things that are gonna happen this year that's gonna be... It's not just gonna flip a switch and it's all gonna be fine...

0:24:33.2 S1: Yeah, but on the other positive end of this all too, with performers, and I played a show last weekend up in the mountains in, and I was taken back by how much I was feeling while I was playing because I had missed it so much. It's something that comes so naturally to me and it's so important to my soul that I was happy to play any song, anybody asked that I was just youth vibe, you know, just matter what they require is a

0:25:02.6 S2: This'll play Free Bird, whatever you want. Yeah, five times

0:25:05.9 S1: Share. You do spend a lot of time on social media. What are some of the things that musicians can do right now on their own to help build their brand and audience via their socials... Their email or their website.

0:25:21.4 S2: Right, and I think that's, again, it comes down to thinking about your strategy and your goals, but the first thing is to think about who you are as a band, and kind of... There's a thing in marketing that people talk about personas, and that is thinking about who you're... And in this case, it would be translating into Who is your fan, what does your fan base look like and then... Where are they on social media? For example, I'm 50 years old, I'm engen. And so while I have explored and tried all every new social media that comes along, I am not on tiktok, and a lot of my readers are... There are some younger readers, but they're generally in the 25 to 50 range, and so I have four main social networks that I choose to work on because they work for me personally, and they work for my fans or my readers, and so again, if something... It really bothered me. People are like, Oh, you have to get on sitar, you have to get on Snapchat, or you have to do this. And it's like, you don't have to do anything. You have to decide if it's the right place for you and then decide, Okay, these are the places like YouTube obviously is a terrific place for musicians to make an effort because it's the number two search engine behind Google in the world.

0:26:46.1 S2: Why wouldn't if you were performing, I would be recording every damn thing and putting it up there, so there's again, there's things to just look at and think about where my fans are, how can I reach them the easiest way, and then again, set that as your goal the other thing I wanna mention is also, it's kind of like when these companies make offers and they're all about the new customers and forgetting the old, I also kind of working about How do I gain fans, but not alienating these people who've been with me the whole time, and that's also thinking about your messaging, making a cognizant Evert... To make everybody feel included, I guess. That's another big thing

0:27:23.2 S1: To reiterate, one thing that I feel like I heard you say before too, is that you don't need to try to do every airtight, it is best just to target one or two first, at least.

0:27:35.3 S2: At least. Yeah, I mean, again, and if you don't have time for more than one, then pick one and do it well, you know what I mean? And then if you... Once you get comfortable with that, maybe you add another one and again, which one you do needs to be about what's right for you in terms of generating content, maybe you're... Maybe you're good at photography, maybe you're good on camera, maybe you're good at doing jokes and 140 characters again, it's really about where your strengths are and how you can deploy them. There's so much easy content out there, in my opinion, frankly, that people don't take advantage of like sharing fan posts or you're getting permission from reaching out to some... A blogger who has photographed or show and asking for those high-res files to be able to share across your social media, obviously with credit and in agreement, but that to me is so few bands ask for my photos, it's astounding.

0:28:34.7 S1: You mean they just take them, they just use

0:28:36.2 S2: The... Well, there's that too. That's a whole another ball of wax, but that's a whole copyright situation that's been glossed over, but in terms of that to me is just such an easy thing to reach out to somebody who's taken some good pictures of your show and ask them for the high resolution ones, so you can put it on your Facebook, you can put it on places and it looks nice, and then again... Then you're building that relationship with that person.

0:29:00.1 S1: If there was one thing an artist could do per day to help strengthen their socials, is that one thing that you might recommend them start with. Okay.

0:29:10.5 S2: I have three. Is that okay? Yeah, I thought about this when you asked me this, and the first big one is being consistent, find your social network, that works, but you have to actually then post-audit and again, it could be twice a week, it could be once a week, but don't let it sit there for months, because you don't have a new single or whatever... It needs to be consistent. And then the other thing I feel like is important is establishing a brand aesthetic, and that doesn't mean like you have to spend all these hours designing things, it just means like, again, coming back to that persona that everybody in the band understands that this is our tone, we're gonna be funny, we're gonna be serious, we're gonna share environmental photos, we support this, cause those kind of things are what you guys should decide as a band is how we're gonna present ourself on social media, and then you have guidelines for content right there. A lot of times people wanna see behind the scenes or more of your personality and social media, so step outside of the music and like I had a music client ones that used to take long walks and he would have these beautiful photos of the woods and every other day, there would be a picture of that, and that was really...

0:30:33.2 S2: People love them. You know what I mean? So again, it doesn't necessarily always have to be about the music, it's about how do you wanna represent your band online.

0:30:42.9 S1: And I love that idea of being consistent too, I think it's incredibly weak over a lot of people, I always say that you can tell a band as an amateur, by their consistency with their presentation or their vocal harmonies...

0:30:58.4 S2: Well, and that's the funny thing. When a lot of people are like, Okay, how do I start a blog? And I was like, you start posting and you keep going, that's the simplest way to do it, is just... It's a long slog. It's a marathon, it's not a sprint. That to any of this is that back to the aesthetic, it doesn't mean like You can't change, it's just that everybody, all the new album comes out and then all of our artwork is gonna be purple to match that or whatever, but the point is that you're on the same page, and then that makes it easier to make those decisions and present yourself again and again and again and put yourself out in front of people.

0:31:37.0 S1: Do you have some sites that you recommend or some platforms to help with social and monitoring the

0:31:44.7 S2: More... Well, the first one that is really great to help create post is Canva, which is C-A-N-V-A, and that is more of a design place, and what's great about that is you can create a graphic and then you can tell it... And there's a free and a paid version, but you can create a graphic and then say, I want it size for Facebook, one size for Instagram, and then you get all the versions of the graphic in the appropriate sizes for you. So that is a great tool. And even if you end up having to pay for the pro version, and I believe it's... I don't know how much it is, honestly, but it's not crazy expensive. We save you that time if you're not a designer, there's a lot to be said for that, help to kind of good scheduling or industry standard scheduling and monitoring or... Hootsuite, Hoot Suite, S-U-I-T-E and buffer. And HootSuite is a free version where maybe you're limited on accounts which you can monitor, can set up filters, you can schedule... I do have a pro count on, and it's great for watching across your networks and being able to keep up with things, and then again, the other thing in research that I don't think a lot of people use a lot is Alexa, which unfortunately, it's not related to Google, it's a traffic monitoring device and you can search, and that is certainly not perfect, it's an aggregate of some data and it's not apples to apples comparison all the time, it's certainly not perfect, but again, you can get a good idea about somebody's site and the types of traffic that they get by checking on Alexa, and there's actually a Chrome plug-in that I just have on my site all the time, and I can just look at the stats there.

0:33:28.2 S1: What about for Instagram or Pinterest?

0:33:31.1 S2: Facebook and Facebook owns Instagram. They have some really good analytics, and Twitter does, to finally have good analytics just built in that you can definitely should be using and looking at your analytics inside of the platform, but then Instagram... There's another one called Icon square, it's that same kind of thing where you're looking and monitoring, and there's a million of them... And again, this is going back to Google and just Google. How do I do analytics on Instagram? I do use Pinterest a lot as a blogger, I use tailwind to schedule my pins, and it saves me a lot of time and you can on tail when you can now schedule Instagram posts as well, and they've been a great tool for me 'cause Pinterest is actually the third largest search engine. Pinterest is not necessarily the place for bands, again, unless it matches you, but for me, it's been great because it's not a huge place for concert photography, so I end up getting a lot of searches there because I'm not recipe people and the Home Improvement decor people have a lot of the search, but I have... I've kinda cornered some of the music, concert photography there, you know, I mean.

0:34:36.6 S1: Which sounds like it might be a good plan for something...

0:34:39.3 S2: Yeah, and it's also a very feminine of audience, so again, it's thinking about who is there, a lot of... Reddit is another place to investigate, I'm not on Reddit at all, doesn't... It doesn't match me or interest me, but then again, it's like those types of things, thinking about, does it match my audience and is it some place that I'm willing to invest my time?

0:35:00.6 S1: I invest my time researching tattoos that I'll never get on, I know

0:35:06.8 S2: You should see my bathroom board, it's like for 10 years down the road when we finally do... Yeah, and that's the thing is that that is not necessarily a social... I mean, I actually, I'm starting to get a ton of comments on my Pinterest, which is crazy, but it's a really good vehicle for more of an SEO perspective that people don't think about.

0:35:26.6 S1: Well, Amy, thank you so much for being here and sharing your insights with us. We so appreciate it.

0:35:32.4 S2: Thank you for having me, I'm so fun to chat with you guys.

0:35:34.8 S1: And if anyone is interested in getting ahold of Amy, they can go to www greenhouse dot com, that's G-R-E-E-B-L-E-H-A-U-S dot com. They can also find a link at our show notes or on our guest less page at musicians tip chart dot com. We hope to have you on again soon. I had a whole other list of questions, but I wanted to stay on topic, so I kept it to just the few, but perhaps next time we see you, maybe we'll be out at an actual show.

0:36:04.3 S2: That would be terrific. Right, thank you again. Thank you.

0:36:08.3 S1: If you build it, they will come. Christabel, a lot of people listen to everything in me had to say, 'cause that was some insightful things that I wish I would have learned a long time ago, honestly, especially about the epas. I know I've already used that line on a few of my students... Well, the spray and pray is very insightful because I think if you use the 2080 rule, do you think that the more I send out, the more I'm gonna get back? And that's not always true. Man, so many helpful tips. So many helpful insights. I also liked how maybe her main niche is not music, but you can see all the things that she can do because she can build a website, she can write a blog, you can get people to her website and make things interesting, and all of us have that inside us that we can take the skills we've already learned that we do for ourselves and help other people do them and hopefully make some money on the side to help us follow our dreams. So we got some dudes and do not donuts. Chris does, and donuts, we need to stick with it.

0:37:16.6 S1: Number one, I think we both agree. Do not send an ek oppress without addressing the recipient by name here to do your research about who you're reaching out to, it's more about relationships than the sprain pray method that does lead to our third one, which when you sow the seeds... The seeds we sow now in our business relationships and the bonds with our audience will bear the fruit of our labors, no seeds equals no fruit, so let's try to put some action to what we've learned. First thing I'd say, to try to write down seven of these little things that you can do with your own personal PR efforts, Number Two, Try to practice doing one a day, stick with one thing for your personal PR that you wanna do and accomplish it that day, write down on Monday what you're gonna do, Tuesday, you're gonna do... Don't try to do it all in one day, and just on that one thing, and third, to build our relationships with each other, let's try out this form that we've created on musicians, Tigard Com, and put in what worked and what didn't work for you, so that the rest of us can learn from that.

0:38:25.1 S1: We know your time is valuable, so we really appreciate you spending this time with us and being a part of this community, it is our hope that we all feel the sense of community here at musicians tip jar, and that you're willing to get involved and contribute or even ask questions when they come up, what's the best way to reach out to us? Hey, check out our website at musicians Tihar dot com or send us an email at musician's tip jar at gmail. And just as a reminder, if you'd like to learn more about magic, another simple way to do so is just go to our guest list at musicians tip chart as always, thank you for joining us and remember there is already enough for everyone just needs to know how to get... Until next time, I'm Beattie in myself, Chris webcast, healthy and take care of each other. From the tiny a car, the May of girls. This is a resistance. Tithing

0:39:20.5 S2: On this show should be considered a specific personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax legal business for Neal professional for individualized advice, individual results and not guaranteed

0:39:32.7 S1: An all disco strategies as a potential for profit lawyering on the half of musicians, temperature and El, the exclusively.