Ten Money Conversations to Have with Fellow Musicians

We are all familiar with doubt in our lives, sometimes it is obvious, other times it’s hidden in our self-sabotage. It can be action or inaction. It can also spread like a virus through false belief and inaccurate ideas or myths. Well, we are here to offer a cure, and no, it’s not more cowbell.

0:00:01.5 S1: Welcome to the show that explores the methods and strategies on loan the financial side of your music business with over 40 years combined experience. Here are your host, Chris Webb and Dave tankless. On Titan, we talk about musicians and money, today's topic is going to expose some of the many myths we create around money and musicians and see if we can help offer a solution. I'm your host, Chris web, joined by the man, the myth, the lone singer, Dave Takin me to the model. Hello again, Chris, what? Thank you.

0:00:38.7 S2: Thank you so much for having me on this podcast.

0:00:42.5 S1: It's a pleasure to be here. Hope everyone's doing all right out there.

0:00:45.4 S2: Til Table Five. How you doing? Good, thank you.

0:00:49.8 S1: We are all familiar with doubt in our lives, sometimes it's obvious, other times it's hidden and self-sabotage, it can be an action or inaction, it can also spread like a virus through false belief and inaccurate ideas in or Miss. Well, we are here to offer a cure and no, it's not more Cowbell, we will chime in on all of that right after this.

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0:02:56.8 S1: Make sure you rate, subscribe to this podcast, leave us a comment and go to our website to sign up for a free weekly newsletter where we will deep dive into the week's topics even further and provide other helpful resources for your music business, the quote of the week, barber strays and is so great, Divinorum barbers, Tracy myths are a waste of time. They prevent progression. Let's start by diving into the myth we have heard over the years about musicians and money, this is in no way a complete list, but is in fact an ever growing one, one thing We artists have proven good at, it's making shit up.

0:03:40.5 S2: Came at the truth, Chris web.

0:03:42.1 S1: So it's about musicians and money... Let's start with the first one. Unless you're famous, you're broke.

0:03:50.3 S2: Which is so not true, because this podcast would not exist if we were famous because we were working in your garage in a studio and coming up with ideas of how we generate income as musicians, and not too many people know our name.

0:04:07.3 S1: That's true. And we are not broken. Next one, musicians can't make middle class wages. This one is one of those that I think a lot of people don't really know what middle class is, and so there's a lot of layers to that. And the middle class might be different for different parts of the country, and sometimes people can live on less or they need more to live on, so it's a wide range, but there is no doubt that we know lots of musicians that are comfortably living with the family. Animal class income.

0:04:45.8 S2: Absolutely. All over the world. Another one is musicians can't get home loans. This is why 1099s are so important, Crispus, if you can't show that you're making money, you can't get a loan anywhere, and not to say that you have to have a loan to get a house, but me, but you need to show that as a musician, and you can easily do that, just keep track of your budget and your income and your expenses, and should Em every year.

0:05:17.0 S1: Right, and if this was, if anything else, it's motivation to be honest way on your taxes in to show all your income, I have progressively gotten better doing my taxes, I still do them myself, I will admit, and it's getting more complicated as a lot of the things are there, but what I've really realized is that I'm actually... I'm very honest with him now, and I'm gonna say that I was less thorough with my checking of my... You know what I'm saying? And now I'm much more careful about it, and I realized that I still don't know any more taxes, the truth is, it's there, it's not really changing the... No, it's just showing up is... I actually make more money. And which really does benefit you when you get along, obviously is the number one thing they're gonna look at, 'cause they wanna make sure in a pay, but there's definitely... As long as you're doing the right things, which is what this podcast is really about, you can get home loans...

0:06:23.9 S2: Yeah, treat it like a business. Like everyone else treats their business...

0:06:27.1 S1: Right. Shocker, another myth. Musicians can't retire. So don't plan on it. This one dies me crazy is as crazy, why can musician have a plan to retire and retire early if they want to... The same as any other business, again, we have to get past that mindset that because you're an artist that you're gonna have to struggle...

0:06:54.2 S2: I think the main point of that bullet is that the planning is the most important, because as a musician, I don't think of retiring, I don't think of stopping, you know, playing music, but you need to be prepared for life changes.

0:07:11.3 S1: You mean when you're 75 and no one wants to hire you as the wedding singer anymore or the lounge singer...

0:07:16.5 S2: True, but I've also seen unbelievable blues musicians that Kingston mines in Chicago use their walker to get up on stage and try to sit down, finally get situated in their seat, someone puts a guitar in their hand and they go back through time and they look like they're 18 years old, loving every second of it and playing so proficient-ly, I hope that I can be that musician one day, but I don't need the gig, I guess. It's 75 is planned.

0:07:50.7 S1: Yeah, you thought it through. You know what you're gonna do, and you know what you have to do to get there. That's the whole... Well, we're gonna get to that podcast real soon, it's coming up, but for now, we'll move on to the next myth, being a musician isn't a sustainable life choice, this is the one you get when you decide to major in music... Oh, okay. What's your minor?

0:08:17.5 S2: And what do you plan on doing for a living? Yeah.

0:08:19.8 S1: So what are you really gonna do? But working at the university, I can say with this one that what we've learned is that the best part about getting an education is learning about business at the same time, and really... Do you think that, especially at UCD, they're reflecting that, they're realizing that that's part of the tools that are required to be a successful artist for a career, is to know about how to run a business. So they've really made a lot of changes since I went to college to what they're doing now, and I think it's gonna make a big difference in their career path, that's also her only super talent had become successful.

0:08:59.8 S2: I guess that's defining successful, because I don't define myself as super talented, but I was successful at making a living plane, just music for a living for many years.

0:09:11.1 S1: Well, and I think you're good to business, I think that's a part of it, honestly, and I do think you're very talent by that.

0:09:15.8 S2: I was gonna say that that should have been the first response, but

0:09:18.7 S1: I see. It's true, everybody, he's like, Oh yeah, you could... Business editing that it gives you an unfair advantage, I think being good at business has shown it's worth in the way that you promote your shows, in the way that you've had a more tactical approach to a lot of what you promote. So that is a big part of it, but that doesn't mean that you can be without talent, and we're not saying that, but we are obviously saying that we can argue that there's a lot of very successful people that aren't that talented... The an argument can be made. And everyone's got their opinions, but the truth is that they had other things, they had other skills that they had developed to help them achieve that success, taking money for commercial work is selling out. Ridiculous. Someone's actually said this one to me recently, that they felt like it was taking away your integrity is an artist that... Water's are fighting words right there. I don't understand, do you wanna be a musician for a living or not, do you think the doctor turns down a certain type of work because

0:10:32.7 S2: I don't even know how to make this comparison to work, but we both know someone who received a lot of money from a fast food chain that their son got played in one of their commercials, and I believe it was overseas, and something like 100000, something like that for that placement, and he got so much shit for it because no one believed in that fast food chain. And what he ended up doing was donating to a non-profit, but he definitely did stick up for him software like, I'm on the road amount of year, this goes to gear, this helps the band, this helps all these things, and sometimes you just have to take the work when it comes

0:11:21.3 S1: In, if there's a moral issue, I can see that being different, then it's not the same thing as an...

0:11:26.5 S2: No.

0:11:26.8 S1: Absolutely. Covering other people's music is selling at... This one, I think, is one that I've wrestled a... When I was first starting to branch out, I was one of the stars that started by barely writing or barely learning anyone else's music and kind of embarrassed... I'm embarrassed to admit that because as I became more and more serious in my music career, I released a few albums, this was in high school, and then I started realizing to make money, I'd have to play other people's music, and that's just part of the... Part of the process for most of us, the majority, and that whole idea, it felt wrong to be not working only on my music, only on my music, but the truth is that I learned so much about song writing by learning everybody else's music, that it was one of the best educations you could get it by learning everyone else's stuff.

0:12:26.1 S2: And it allowed you to diversify your income, so you find that money to make the album you want it to make, and say even if you didn't wanna make an album and you just wanted to play covers. And as a musician for a living. Well.

0:12:41.0 S1: I wash you, trio Crush It slats a great career. Writing music for money, just selling out, and I wanted to give an example of this one, because this is where somebody... This one came up when I was in a conversation with someone, because they were saying As a band, like The Beatles never would write music for money, it was always about... They have such a persona, and it just... What happened that I was reading an article from Paul McCartney talking about how him and John Lennon used to sit down, Alright, let's go ride swimming pool today, like he was literally... That's my terrible accent. But he would literally say, Let's write a swimming pool, like Let's write a song that's gonna buy me a swimming pool, and that's real, that's real. And that's the reality is that their business men and they love their craft, it doesn't make them love music, and unless it doesn't make their mission or their message and diluted, it just means that they understand that they're good at what they do when it makes them money when they do it well.

0:13:49.3 S2: And there are careers that people just write music for sin, that's it, they show up every day to write, they get a brief and they write an unbelievable song that does what it's supposed to do to fit a certain image of visual and they do it to make money, is like if you would do it to teach music or sing cover songs.

0:14:12.4 S1: It's pretty fun, if you ever said, Okay, I'm gonna write a song about this candle, I'm gonna sell you this candle of the sin, and then you just said then you write it.

0:14:21.3 S2: They picked it up, that they use it, and this... Maybe you heard of the musical Rent is... Okay, it's the second song on the CD.

0:14:28.1 S1: It's... Okay, would you like my candle? Oh, okay, no, in the mining way is, there's really no such thing as selling out except selling out something like tickets or merge, which is very real and is very awesome. Musicians don't get tax breaks. Yes, we do. And I'd say that some of the new tax laws have changed the simplicity, maybe some things have gotten a little easier and some things have gotten more confusing, even taken away, but that always happens, things change, but we absolutely qualify for lots of tax breaks.

0:15:04.4 S2: And it's good to be knowledgeable on those tax breaks, and if you don't have the time to be knowledgeable on them, it's worth hiring someone that is knowledgeable on them because they'll probably save you even more than what you pay them for it

0:15:19.3 S1: And tell a rat... As a musician, it's better to not claim your income...

0:15:25.4 S2: Yeah, this goes back to number three, wrong

0:15:32.3 S1: With extra Jez gene, that one's visually no explanation needed. It's just simply wrong, you really risk too much and gain very little by not claiming all over income since there's so much work I need to do on my business, it's better to just not do any... I wanted to add this one because I know the US isn't like a myth directly, but this is something we tell ourselves when we feel overwhelmed, we just choose Netflix or whatever we do, we don't work on what we need to do, and although that's not a myth I think that it is one of those things that I think artists are really good at.

0:16:19.6 S2: Well, if I complain about this stuff and she'll say, Well, just don't do it, and then you're already failing, so wouldn't you rather try and fail than just not do anything and fail, 'cause you're already there. If you don't do anything, what are you complaining the out... Like Amit, and you're always right. Now she has this on a podcast, I can just take that little sound bite and play it over and over it for me, it's...

0:16:47.4 S1: Your new ring down. Every musician is different. No two are exactly the same. Just as our fingerprints are different, we all have something unique to offer, so find the place of your work that you really love, grow it from there, don't start from these places of Miss and things you don't like to do. It will slow you down. You must love the process, not that game-winning shot.

0:17:12.3 S2: There's a great song by Martin Sexton called in the journey, and if you haven't heard it before, it's about enjoying that journey too. It's not about the destination. It's the journey.

0:17:22.2 S1: Yeah, that's great. Have you ever noticed that every time you're doing something you are really good at, and you think to yourself, Boy, I'm doing so good, I'm so good, and then you screw up. Sometimes you say, Am I gonna screw up? I can't keep this level of Aston this up, and then you hit the brown note, that's because you're focused on the end and not on the love of the process. To be successful, you must love your process more than the result, which in turn means you must love what you do, if this is true, all of these money, maths, all of these made up reasons, this career choice won't work, come clear, is just mental distractions or voices of doubt, there are lots of us thousands doing this life successfully and with great emotional and financial reward, so use your fingerprint, your unique fingerprint, find your place that you love, or your strength and passion, lie, and build free of doubt, free of myths and free of fear of your sour notes, if you wanna get hold of us and add more to this list, this ever never-ending list of myths, please send them to musicians tip garage man, or check us out at musicians A dot com, and if you haven't yet, make sure you rate subscribe and comment.

0:18:53.3 S1: As always, thank you for joining us, remember, there is already enough for everyone, you just need to know how to get it until next time on behalf of Dave tannins, Chris Webb, please stay safe. Stay healthy and take care of each other. Ignore the in press on your passions and make the money, Singh's musicians to care. Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice as consultor ate tax, legal testes or financial professionals, or individualized device and division results and the guarantee and Aldersgate GIs have the potential for profit or loss, the homes are operating on the half of musicians temperature LLC granulosa.