The Good, The Bad and The Unwritten

We believe repetition works for remembering things, because by repeating things you’re more likely to remember them and that is why we repeat things. I’m your host Chris Webb joined by my co-host and the musician who repeats all his best jokes, Dave Tamkin. Quote: “At the end, someone or something always gives up. It is either you give up and quit or the obstacle or failure gives up and makes way for your success to come through.” -Idowu Koyenikan

0:00:01.7 S1: Welcome to the show that explores the methods and strategies on loan the financial side of your music business with over 40 years combined experience. Here are your host, Chris Webb and Dave take. Welcome to Metis tip. Can we talk about musicians and money, we believe repetition works for remembering things, because by repeating things, you are more likely to remember them, and that is why we repeat things. Can you say that again? Your host, Chris Webb, joined by my co-host and the musician who repeats all his best jokes. Dave Damon, can you say that again? Quote Week is by Ada kanaan, the author of the book, well for all Africans. He said At the end, someone or something, always gives up, it is either you give up and quit, or the obstacle or failure gives up and makes way for your success to come through. We are so excited to have a chance today to reflect and highlight the year, we will review some of our favorite concepts and principles from season one, highlight a few of the best opportunities at musicians tip jar dot com, and give a bit of what's coming next for mg in season two, right after this, make your marketing work for you with revenue-generating automations, no more guessing, the more busy work people we're talking about drip, drip lets you create workflows, it smarter and harder, so you don't have to and you can focus on running your business running your music career, running automate proven email and SMS marketing playbooks, roller revenue, the marketing engine behind current and future e-commerce champions use lead ads and forms to attract more fans and feature merch sales funnels.

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0:02:19.0 S2: Welcome back everybody. This non-profit for this week is bringing music to life dot org. In 2010, Steve Black was hosting a classical music program for Colorado Public Radio. The station celebrated some of the most beautiful music ever composed, even as the news frequently reported cuts to school budgets, which reduced or eliminate funding to local our program, so Steve proposed asking his listeners to share their love of music with Colorado State's children and most changeable way by donating instruments soon, the first instrument drive was launched requesting a gently used Bean orchestra instruments which could be refurbished in order to low-income students, donors understood that they are giving more than a violin or flute, they frequently leave notes tucked in instrument cases tempting at fun to be had, encouraging, practicing and thinking, the young learners who will give their chairs insurance in new life, bringing music to life conservatively estimates that 17000 children have benefited from the more than 5500 instruments donated over the last decade, Learn more at bringing music to life dot org.

0:03:25.4 S1: And make sure you read, subscribe to this podcast, leave us a comment, go to our website, check out all the resources and discounts that we've collected for you and help you with your financial management, and while you're there, you can sign up for a free weekly newsletter where you can connect with other related articles and that will keep you up on all the new opportunities for your music business. Today is a special day for us.

0:03:49.1 S2: Certainly as Chris web certainly is, This is our final episode of our first season here at musicians tip jar, and it feels like a real accomplishment and a reason to sell 30 episodes, Chris, 30 weeks, we showed up for each other. Learn more things than I think either of us thought we were going to learn, 'cause at the beginning, we thought, Oh, we're gonna be spewing this stuff out, but I learned so much from you over the last 30 episodes, that's for sure.

0:04:19.4 S1: Absolutely, me too. We started this podcast with a hope to help our music community build stronger businesses and set up their finances to weather any storm or future pandemics, if they ever have a begin... What's happened is so much more a community of like mining musicians has emerged full of inspiring people, actual career musicians living these principles, it has been a great reminder that we are always... Both the teacher and the student. I'd like to start by talking just an overview of some of the takeaways from the season and both the inset... I told you to do this right, and I tried to do my best at this to pick out our kind of favorite moments. So why don't you start... I would say, I have to start with the first episode.

0:05:03.3 S2: I think I was the most excited to start something new, I don't think either of us knew how to even use the equipment we thought we did to get things rolling, but we were talking about things that we cared about... And not only do we love playing music, but I think the idea of being able to share some of the tools that we have learned over the years to help out other musicians, that was exciting for me. So not only I think we're trying to show people how to not only open up a new revenue stream for themselves, because we were talking mostly about live streaming, but it opened up a new way to be creative and connect with your audience, so I would have to say episode one for me was huge.

0:05:51.5 S1: I don't get nervous on stage much anymore for most cases, but I felt really nervous those first few episodes, it's just 'cause it's new and it's foreign and it feels intimidating and... That was exciting.

0:06:03.9 S2: I would say my second favorite episode would probably have to be episode 10, don't inhale and burn out. I related to that episode a lot, I think over the years, I continue to find myself in patterns of burnout, not only music, but just being creative in other areas of my life, I tend to burn the candle at both end sometimes, and it was a next reminder to go over those bullet points and remind myself to find my stride again...

0:06:33.2 S1: Yeah, for me too, I actually felt like that episode really made me realize that it's one of those things we do as you dive into one specific thing, like finance within music, you find out that it actually is a very wide space, and that was one of those episodes where I was like, Wow, we're actually talking about burnout, because it actually pertains to being able to make this your career and be successful financially and... Artistically, it's all connected, right? Absolutely.

0:07:03.2 S2: And now I know you're gonna talk about why saline, because this one still is a debate, so I can't... Do you're gonna say What... Upsetting a plan or a widespread planet. Plan it, plan it. Plan it. Right. Am I... What is that called again, Chris?

0:07:24.6 S1: I don't know, but the other way it was out of this world.

0:07:29.5 S2: Not only did you start out with, again, I enjoy your intros, but I missed all the jam band references, and you were kind of smiling, we can see each other and you were laughing and I had no clue what you were talking about. And I was just like, Why is this kind of thing? He's so money, but then you do later, and that's how you know... That was to this, I'm like, I'm such an idiot. I had no idea what you're talking about. So that made me nervous right out of the gate 'cause I wasn't on the same page as you, but also we're talking about something that I do weekly, monthly with my clients and being a musician and talking about how we plan financially for it, and the success that you and I have had with doing that in our own careers is something that it's fun to share about, but because maybe I'm not playing as often as I used to... One thing that I do more than anything is set goals and plan for my clients as a consultant and a marketing specialist, so I really wanted to be on my game and come across...

0:08:35.8 S2: Articulate on that topic. So I was really nervous for that. And I think when I work with my clients to define goals and ways to achieve those goals and measure you now not only my performance, but the company's performance against the outcome, it's really a reflection of what I used to do as a musician, because we had to plan tours, we had to have gas flights, hotels, pay the band, and it's a real challenge to be that company, that brand that musician a goals and measure your own performance goals against how you show up each day to achieve them, so that was a special episode.

0:09:16.5 S1: I think the episode that hit me the most was the money mindset because it really hadn't done on me personally how much the world of being an artist and the world of being interested in finance, which for me were often separate when they brought them together with this concept of this musician's money mindset, I had to battle with that with myself to defend myself against myself about being okay with making an effort to make more money, making an effort to raise my prices, to believe in abundance, to believe in that idea that all the opportunity I could ever want is already sitting there, and that it was really up to me to really see it that way, so it has stuck with me and I've made new habits from the research I did on that episode. And I think that it's really helped me in a lot of ways with the way that I approach opportunity now, in the way that I approach choosing which opportunities to write for me, and how I negotiate with what's being offered and what opportunities I think might be a better choice for me. So it's been a powerful episode for me that I have actually gone back and listen to it myself because some of those quotes in there that we were fencing out some of the other people...

0:10:41.5 S1: Those are the ones that I really stick with, and even some of those books I've stuck back and pulled out again just to remind myself, 'cause I think it's about... Part of what's great with these podcasts is that when you have such a specific topic like that, it's really useful to be able to remind yourself by just listening to that podcast, it's just like we're reading a book and just re-reading the principles of something that is important to you for some people like a religious context, I really... The religious text, and by re-reading it, you bring yourself closer back to that principle, and that's kind of what I think is valuable with a podcast, it's very specific like this.

0:11:19.0 S2: Well, I wasn't kidding when we started this podcast today, when I said I learned a lot, I walked away from that episode and I bought the book How to Think and Grow Rich after that, and it was almost like... I felt like I was given permission to be allowed to even think that way after that episode, I don't know, that might sound crazy, and I don't know how to explain it, but it was almost like I was given permission to pay attention differently, and it's something that I think we all do, even when maybe let's use a car for an example, or maybe a good car that you want, and so you get a new car and you see that same car on the road all the time. It's something that's top of mind. So when you start to think about those things all the time of, how do you see profit? How do you see growth? How do you see your career? Then you start paying attention when those opportunities start coming up, like you probably do it before, at least I started to pay attention to it more, and it made it more fun too, so I really appreciated the insight that you gave on that episode and the book is amazing.

0:12:27.3 S1: Yeah, we have all the books that we've referred to throughout this season, all on the website under the book club, even some we haven't discussed because I've taken some liberties and not talk to you about it. So let's talk about a little bit of the interviews, we had so many great guests, and so I can't get through all of them, but I just want to bring out a couple of things that some of them have said or principles that they kinda introduced that have also stuck out, and I've gotten some feedback from some of the emails from people that some of these things were also powerful for them, so I thought I would mention them. So I thought I'd start with Amy gay. She reminded all of us how we are the only ones that are failing ourselves now, she didn't say that, but when I was talking with... When I was emailing with one of our listeners about how the way she presented all that stuff is basically that we have all the opportunities to do these things ourselves, these little things we talk about, the title of that one is about farming all of your crops.

0:13:34.3 S1: So that it grows and some of that stuff isn't gonna be an instant result, it's about building, and building and growing and growing, and the way she articulated some of that stuff and just kind of made it so simple, I think it makes me slap myself in the face a little bit. So I call it... Is that simple, isn't it?

0:13:53.8 S2: I liked how she brought the importance of connection and networking and gave a voice to the other person, the person on the other side of that email that publicists do what they do because they've made relationships with the people that they work with, and if you're gonna send out a bunch of press releases, at least take the time to know who you're emailing, you put their name and it make it personable, and you should be treating everyone that way, but it was just nice to hear from her perspective...

0:14:24.1 S1: Right. Well, I give him as all the time that aren't addressed me for business opportunity stuff, people do that all the time, and I don't know if I've ever really done that or not, but I definitely want 100% would not look at an email that's not even addressed to me, like, I can tell it's basically spam, right? Yeah, and Dave Ratner, another one, giving us all the reasons that we need to use written agreements, and what I appreciated the most was that as complicated and intelligent with his craft as he is, he's like... You could just write it down on a piece of paper. You know what I mean? That the idea of writing something down doesn't have to have a million complicated words and all the lingo that you commonly see in an agreement, it just needs to state exactly what's expected from all parties, and it's better to do that up front before you start all this work and then try to have that conversation later, get everything in writing in the beginning and make it clear so everyone's on the same page, and the ethical route always wins, and that's really a great way to make sure that the Athos for all parties, storm glory.

0:15:34.5 S1: I really can't say enough about how hard he works to help his music community, but when we had him on the podcast, and I know that this result wasn't what he intended with his conversation with us, what... That's often how great insight comes along, but for me was this reality check that all successful people must continue to reinvent themselves...

0:15:58.9 S2: Yeah, but you say you took that from storm glory, but you just sent me a picture of a bunch of gene jackets on sale the other day.

0:16:08.6 S1: Are you making choices to re-invite yourself, or is it Dennis web.

0:16:13.2 S2: Is... We're just... We're gonna keep going that way. Did you pick me up a media... Next photo is that you're a...

0:16:24.3 S1: Yes, getting to the point of what he said. I actually can't think of a single long-standing artist that hasn't reinvented themselves at least one time, and it's... Or of like, why is that not talked about or just a very basic obvious thing for artists that are not at that top tier, like Well, artists that are at every tier need to approach it the exact same way if you wanna stay at where you're at or a good hire, you have to reinvent yourself every five to seven years at a minimum, there's probably a limit of too many times too, but I don't know if you're really trying to make an effort and following what's working... I think that naturally occurs. Yeah.

0:17:14.3 S2: And it's a great example that no matter how old you are either like age doesn't have to play into that, you know, if you're growing creatively like you're also aging as a person, you know, it could be a very positive thing for you, so don't limit yourself

0:17:32.2 S1: Well, in the last one of the interviews that I just wanted to highlight was Jared judge.

0:17:37.2 S2: Inspiring conversation, even before we were gonna have him on the podcast or ask him, please do that for us, because when I first talked to him when he was telling how he started book live pro, it was just a great story, and especially how he turned a bad experience into something so amazing, so it was so nice of him to come in on the show and talk about how he built that and how musicians have an opportunity to create their own futures.

0:18:07.3 S1: Yeah, and if your future has downsides or big mistakes, which it will, because it just happens, the real difference is what you do after that moment, and that is such a powerful thing because I feel like as a human instinct where often felt like we're pushed towards the feet, we're supposed to accept it. And then even if it's subconscious, we can't always be completely aware of how we're reacting, but we often don't recover from big blows because our heart was so in it, and it can be a big deal if you audition for something big and you get smacked down for that it can even subconsciously make a series... They used to call it burned out or there's a lot of ways that people refer to it, but basically some people can kind of not have their heart in it anymore because they're usually not willing to let their heart be as exposed because it hurts too much when you get shot down again, but the difference really can be when you get hit down, what you do next, and I think that a lot of success stories have those Pine Point moments, were those people that made it to that success level, made that decision to go towards using it for something else, it using it to step up to make it something in razing.

0:19:32.7 S1: And so next time we're in those situations, if we can draw on that concept and say, Look, I have the opportunity right now to do something good with this or to let it drag me down, like that's a moment that you will look back at and say, What did I do... Let's talk about some of the principles that we've drawn from our first season, first of all, we all know this now, 'cause we keep saying it, but you have to have a financial plan, and if nothing else comes from you listening to any of these episodes... Let that be the biggest one, because if you don't have any plan at all, you can't expect to make this a career.

0:20:11.9 S2: Yeah, start to know the simplest way is to know how much is coming in and how much is going out, that's the first step.

0:20:20.0 S1: Right, which Jesus way to do that is to the next point of having a budget up, you've gotta have a budget to be able to know how much is coming in and how much is going out. And IT budget also not only tells you that information, but it also keeps you from letting too much get out, and that's just as valuable because you can make small decisions that add up to big change and can actually help you sustain this career without even doing anything different, just getting control of what's happening in and up, and that also goes along with the other point I wanted to make, which is have a business plan, don't just hope that you're eventually gonna make it in this industry, start trying to pick something to target and shoot for it and make... And figure out what it's gonna take to get to that point.

0:21:13.1 S2: And you can start out with just the first week, what do you wanna achieve by the end of this week, and then have a month and then a six-month goal, and then a year ago, and then three-year goal... Use your imagination. Just shoot for the stars. Yeah, you gotta dream big and you gotta know what you want, you gotta be able to see it with definition after that, you and I have a lot of discussion, I'm getting rid of debt, and then it's just the biggest money suck.

0:21:42.6 S1: As some of the stats we've pulled out over this season, it is the biggest cause in my opinion, and we're still trying to find ways to prove the statistics, but I think it is the biggest reason that musicians end up not making this their career or being able to follow it for long enough that they finally succeed in, as we said in that first quote, either you have to quit, or the things that are resisting you quit and eventually one of those to happen, and I think that that is the biggest reason that people... And I'm quitting before is before their opportunities really came, and then holding each other accountable, we are here as a community, and that's one of the most powerful things you can do is that we aren't along the... And then working on your money mindset, as I said earlier, I just believe that you have to have a relationship with your understanding of money, and you have to make that... You have to make that a part of how you approach your art and then say that they don't fight each other, they can't be at ends with each other in order for you to truly succeed, you have to have a positive mindset for money, or the money will never come to you.

0:22:51.3 S2: Let's talk about some of the opportunities that you and I find through some of our sponsors and the partners that we have on musicians titer, I picked three. I know you're in there all the time, Chris, but I'm just gonna take this part over... Okay, do a master class is freaking awesome. I got it last year. You buy one and it's 15 a month, it's so inexpensive, and then you get a free one that you get to give to a friend, so let's just talk about the music side of it, I mean, they have classes from Alicia Keys, timeline, SIGINT urban cock on Zimmer, amoral, so many cool music lessons and just how they approach music, but outside of that, there's so many entrepreneurs, so many playwrights, directors, just the creatives that you get for 15 a month. It's unbelievable, so I'll just leave it at that, but please just go. Check it out, it's awesome. The second one, I would say would be like a combination of three, which was a game changer for me, especially over the pandemic, and then right before we lost a lot of gigs in the April before that, it would be print print if and sulfide, the idea that I don't have to put a lot of money upfront to get Merch anymore.

0:24:12.7 S2: Is just such a game changer that you can test out new products, everything from Tumblr to panipat, coffee cups, T-shirts, whatever you want, cost you nothing, you can sell get a smaller margin and then see what works and what doesn't, and then make a bigger margin when you make enough money to buy in bulk, that was financially talk about budgeting and learning what works, I think you check out all three of those companies and there's deals for all of them at the musician sitar. Last one, I would say True fire, they not only have a great website to learn, it's mostly for guitar players, some bass players, and I think they put some mandal in stuff in there too, but it's just such a fun creative way to learn how to play new styles, new tunes. And it just seemed like you're almost part of a family when you sign up with them, and I've been using it for four years now, and show up every other week for... Get an email saying, check this out, and sometimes to give you deals for five bucks or something and you spend a month learning something out of it, so those are my three things that I think that was like cool opportunities to work with those companies, and I don't know, hopefully a season two, we find some more cost to share...

0:25:28.9 S1: Yeah, well, and that's just the tip of that iceberg that you've put on there, and I do appreciate it, and I'm sure lots of people have appreciated you putting that time into putting that stuff together for all of us. There's just so many ways that we can simplify your life, and that's really what that page is about, is finding ways for you to learn things quicker so that you don't have to spend as much time figuring it out on your own. So let's talk a little bit about what we're doing in our next season. This is exciting for me. I've hesitated on what to say and what not to say about this, because part of it is once you say it, it's real, but I think that... That's okay, right? I want everyone to know about it, and I wanna hear from everybody. But we'll talk more about that in a minute. The first thing we're gonna do some more guides, we've gotten a lot of positive feedback, guides like the money conversations that the guide that we've had for that in the rate gun, which is now a very popular download. Have you seen that?

0:26:25.2 S2: Right. Is just beautiful. Yeah. Well, whoever put that together.

0:26:31.7 S1: You... And then, of course, we're gonna do some more how... Two interviews, we're gonna try to dive into more of the areas of building assets in the music business, I'm super into a lot of the asset building areas right now, and the options that we have as artists independently and the Internet, there's just so much right now. And so we wanna talk about some of that stuff very specifically next season, we're also gonna spend more time motivating your ass, trying to get you off your seat and do and what you need to do to keep this dream alive. And that goes along with, We're building this community, we're also trying to build this Facebook page where everyone can come each other and share resources, so hopefully as questions come up, because by tax time, like we've got a couple of emails about people asking about taxes stuff, those need to be able to go to a place where we can all just shoot in a safe place, we can shoot those questions out to each other and say, Hey, I have a question, do I need to do a W-9 for this gig that I did that I pay these positions...

0:27:34.8 S1: And we can answer this question specifically. That community is gonna be on our Facebook page and our community of people that we've been playing music with for the last 20 plus years, so I look forward to bringing in some of our friends that we haven't done this first season that have inspiring stories about how they diversify their income and how they survive as an artist, and the other exciting news we were trying to put out is that we say it's gonna be real, it's gonna be real. We will be self-publishing our first musicians tip to financial guide for musicians, Eva. This is something that we've been working on slowly, and it should be ready to go by season two, and hopefully this will give everybody a big boost in just knowing the basics of how musicians can get their finances straight and ready to go for success, so does... And do not. Well, we've been reflecting this whole time, so can I tell about dogs and donuts?

0:28:41.0 S2: Yeah, so Chris, just to tell them, anyone who's sang, Chris and I work pretty hard on different things on this podcast, and we've been fortunate enough to outsource some of these creatives that we do for social, and then we're able to post, but this gentleman that we're working with, you know, I told him, You don't do and donuts, and he put dos and don'ts, and I had to write them and I said, Well, listen, just so you know, not that you have to go back and correct it, but it's does and donuts. And he wrote back, he's like, That just sounds ridiculous. Now, I thought you guys just didn't not know how it is well, and then I had right back like, It's not ridiculous, it's something that really means lock to me and says I can't really eat donuts anymore, just looking at the word makes me feel good, and we're gonna continue to do it. So thank you for your input and we look forward to working with you.

0:29:41.8 S1: I do listen back to these episodes and let them service, I'll let them service that

0:29:52.6 S2: Maybe I should be listening to these episodes.

0:29:55.8 S1: Do listen back to these episodes and let them serve as motivation or a way to refocus when you need it, we all hit those walls and we need a little motivation to put us back on track.

0:30:08.1 S2: You make having a financial plan a bigger pillar in your business, and if you need help with it, send us an email because Chris gets all the emails, so he knows more about it and has better plans that I do, but he's really great at it, but please reach out if you need help, ask someone you know who's close to you that could help you plan or ask other musicians if they have one... Just make it a goal for you in the next... I'll give you 30 things, you got 30 days from listening to this right now to have a financial plan, at least for the next 90

0:30:43.7 S1: Ask everybody in every business, there are anybody who started a business, I had to build a business plan pretty much. So this is one of those things that really transcends all industries, anybody in the art industry might have a different way of setting this plan up, but you can get advice from so many different types of people for a business plan that might help you just figure out how to start. Don't give up on your dreams. That's the last thing I wanted to say is, Don't ignore your calling, you're here listening to this for a reason because you care, because you want this, and because you believe that there is a way for you to make it work. That's the same thing we believe, and that's the same thing that most people miss when they give up on their dreams, that they're actually ignoring they're calling. So one action step for you this week is to leave us a comment or send us an email, let us know about what you wanna see for season two, we are still writing a lot of the scripts or episode for season two, and we're still lining up a lot of the interviews, so if there's anybody that you would wanna recommend, or it may be you yourself, or if there's other ideas that you might have that you wanna share, we would really appreciate them.

0:31:59.1 S2: More quotes would be good too. More quotes from anyone who's not a present, who's been a president before... Married to a president.

0:32:08.3 S1: We know how valuable your time is, and we appreciate you spending this time with us and being a part of this community, is our hope that you feel that sense of community here, it means this is Zipcar and will help us spread the word so that we become stronger together, what is the best way to get ahold of us? Stay.

0:32:23.0 S2: You can check us out at musicians to cardio or send us an email at musicians tip jar at gmail.

0:32:29.2 S1: And lastly, we want to thank you, this experience has taught us so much and brought us so much joy and motivation to our own lives, meeting so many great people, getting a chance to be a part of your life just makes us want more opportunities to keep doing it, so thank you for your love and your support in this getting musician tip jar off the ground and started, this is a labor of love, and love is the only thing in the world that there is an end the supply of. And the more you give, the more you create, that is the true power we have here, we are here to help each other succeed, and by doing so, find success ourselves. So thank you for joining us, and remember, there is already enough for everyone, you just need to know how to get it until next time, on behalf of Dave camping, to myself, Chris web, please stay. Stay healthy and take care of each other. As the great Steven Tyler said, Sing with me, sing for the years Sanomat and sing for the tears, but dreaded demon dream a diode comes through this, his musicians, Tippecanoe, nothing on this show should be considered specific personal professional advice as consultant, appropriate.

0:33:52.0 S1: Tax, legal, business or financial professional or individualized Vice, individual results and I peed and all discuss strategies have a retention for Proctor one organizations, tijerina. So you said you... Soha