74. Navigating a Path to Being a Professional Musician
season 3, episode 14
Episode: 74
Welcome to the show that explores the methods and strategies for rockin the financial side of your music business. With over 40 years of combined experience, here are your hosts, Chris Webb and Dave Tamkin. Welcome to Musicians Tip Jar where we talk about musicians and money. We encourage every musician to learn by doing and being hands on. I'm Chris Webb joined by my co-host, Dave Tamkin, just returning from the secondhand shop.
Today, we get to chat with our guests. So start talking about politics, culture, and music, strengthening your message as an artist, and the easiest way to get the skills needed for your career.
Quote of the week
“Where I grew up I feel very grateful that we had the love of music and that that music was directly related to a cause”. - Zoë Moff
After attending Berklee College of Music, Zoe studied recording arts and music business with a focus on bass performance at the University of Colorado Denver. Originally from Bs. As, Argentina, she has been a composer, bass player, and session musician for numerous groups around the world. Some of her best highlights include having original music in advertisements, producing and managing artists featured in more than 600 playlists on Spotify, and playing with Cous at Red Rocks Amphitheater in October 2022. All this and more by the age of 21.
Non-profit of the week
Jazz Foundation of America's mission is to prevent homelessness and evictions for musicians and families in need by assisting with rent and mortgages. In partnership with Englewood Hospital, they provide a pro bono network of physicians and specialists for uninsured musicians in health crises. Helping musicians rebuild their homes and restore their lives after hurricanes, floods, and other catastrophes. Learn more at jazzfoundation.org
Chris Webb
Our guest today Zoë Moff is an audio engineer, bassist, composer, and recent graduate. She was also one of our first interns here at Musicains Tip Jar, when we first started getting up and running. So this was really fun for us to get to sit down with Zoe.
Zoë Moff
Thank you, Chris, for talking to me here.
Chris Webb
I want to start with some of the background story and how you ended up and how we ended up meeting. So let's, let's let's take that origin story back to how you ended up in the roles you are as an artist.
Zoë Moff
So I feel like you know, I grew up in the musicians household. Both my parents were musicians. So I just grew up, you know, with musical around me picked up the guitar, where it was that it's that was important is Argentina, where I grew up and lived, born and raised till I was 17. So yeah, I picked up the guitar when I was six, and, you know, just just fell in love with the guitar, and the music. And I knew by the age of like, around 12 that I wanted to pursue music as a career. So that was kind of the start of it right? And then I remember meeting this like kinda a friend of a friend at this, like family dinner when I was 14. And he told me all Berklee College of Music in Boston that he had been there for, like, a couple years. And he was like, all excited. And he was telling me about it. And I was like, wow, I want to do that, right? Like, why not? So I went out when I went into high school, when I was 1314. I remember telling my mom, my mom the first day, and I told her, I was like, I am going to like, study a lot to get a GPA of like, 4.0 to get a scholarship to go to Berkeley. So I was determined to do that. And indeed, it did happen. I spent a couple of months at Berkeley, when I was 17. And, you know, when I went there, I just knew that I kind of had to come to the US to pursue what I wanted to do. And that's how I ended up at CU Denver through a Fulbright scholarship, and just meeting everyone. And yeah, that's kind of how I think you and I met because I applied for the internship, right. Yeah, back in back in COVID times.
Chris Webb
Time. Yeah. Which we were it was like, right before COVID. I think that was the end. But we I don't think we met in person. You know, all of our work was remote for so long that it's kind of crazy. Now I get to see you randomly in the, you know, recording studio area at the school. Is that where you're working? Part time right now? Yeah, we call that the core. Right. And right. And it's the main recording area for all the University of Colorado Denver students. Let's back up a little bit on that story. Did you play out much when you were really young? And were you playing mostly guitar? Or were you playing multiple times?
Zoë Moff
It's a good question. So you know, when I was younger, I definitely you know, I was all in with like private lessons and just practicing on my own. But when I hit high school, and last year of middle school to when I was like, 12, I started gigging a little bit out. I started my first official band, it was like an acoustic guitar and vocal dues. I used to play acoustic guitar and I had this friend, son, and we were 16 at the time, and we played out a lot. People liked our stuff, we were super passionate, we felt like, you know, like, think 15 originals. And we actually recorded our first EP, which was kind of my first album ever. And we tracked that this like, really cool professional studio with, you know, really professional, just professional producers and a great mastering engineer, too. So that was my first experience in a studio two, which was mind blowing, which we can get into later. Yeah, that was my first EP, and then the band that do a split up. And then I started, like a funk fusion band around the time, same time 1617 That was us five piece, you know, drums, bass, guitar, keys and saxophone. And that was super fun. That was projects to it
Chris Webb
Yes. Let's What about some with the music that you were growing up around in Argentina? Like, what are what were some of the most commonly requested songs for you guys? Aside from your, I'm sure, awesome originals? Right.
Zoë Moff
You know, there's a rock, the National rock from Argentina, it's really, really, really, really, really important. You know, I think it's because a lot of it comes from all the dictatorships I happen. So as you know, as a society, we feel so attached to those songs that are just like justice to that, you know, so yeah, rarely
Chris Webb
Christ songs. Correct. Correct. very political, are they?
Zoë Moff
very political, but in a really hidden way, because you know, you can not be verbal about it. Right. So they're just like, really well written, but you know, they're talking about that. Right.
Chris Webb
So have you have 15 year old thing in this? Yeah. Yes, that's really cool. Because it must be very powerful for the older generations to see the younger generations supporting that message in the on the art, that's definitely one
Zoë Moff
of the most powerful things I feel that I'm grateful for the society and the place I grew up in, which is like that love for music and the love for music is strictly related to a cause, you know, so just unites people. Right?
Chris Webb
Would you say that you've ever written a political song yourself?
Zoë Moff
Totally. I feel. I feel like music is political. You know, whether you maybe are aware of it or not, but I feel like you know, I mean, I'm a believer that everything personally is political. So I feel like music, you know, music is not only personal and it's not only through you as an individual, but it's also a collective. So yeah, I'm sure I definitely written political songs. Yeah.
Chris Webb
Do you feel like the music that you are exposed to in the United Say it's as much political message underneath it comparatively to what you found in Argentina,
Zoë Moff
I definitely do do see a difference. But you know, it's it's a positive difference because I feel like many political things here, just like, you know, the BLM Movement and all of that it's it's political and like robbed is political and jazz, of course, you know, so I feel like there's definitely, yeah, there's definitely a political side to it. And when I play music here, and when I relate to other musicians and colleagues, I make sure that that's on the table, and that we're kind of agreeing on the same things. Because, you know, if not, like, why are we doing music together? If that makes sense? Right?
Chris Webb
Yeah. Ya know, that that can be really difficult to have when you're working with people that don't align with your values. Right. Now, did that happen to you at all? When you were younger? Was that ever? Like an issue?
Zoë Moff
I don't think so. Um, maybe it was, but not like, you know, upfront, but I do hear stories about like, you know, other musicians believing certain things or like, you know, whatever, now being supportive of barley sides support, right? Or, or different, like, minorities or communities? And that's just a big no, no, for me as a professional, you know?
Chris Webb
Yeah. Before we get off the topic of your youth years as a performer, what was it like getting paid? And did you get paid back then, when you're getting started?
Zoë Moff
You know, when we started playing with the duo, you know, we were, of course, minors, and it was hard to book venues. So I had to go through my dad, actually, so he was the manager or whatever. And, you know, getting paid was hard. That's for sure. People did not want to pay, and they would always offer us like a door split, right. So yeah, if you sell 20 tickets, you get 20% off authority. So you get 30%. Of All right, which was not great, right? But no, we, we had to sell sell for it. Because we didn't, we didn't really have any, like, negotiating power, right? Because we were young, and, you know, people didn't really know us. But we were, we were just craving that music. And that live show, you know, we just wanted to be on stage. So we would settle for that, we did get a couple of residences, which was something better in pay, and just for us as a band. So we had these residency for four months, and we would play there twice a month, on the same venue, and they they cannot negotiate with us. So we will go out every night. Maybe with like $20, which, you know, converting the money, but you know, we're not doing it for the money and the time, when I picked up my my knee and soul fusion kind of funk band, we did play at some venues that paid and there was a guarantee. And it was usually COPD, as you know, people do here with like, two drinks, right? Guarantee was not a lot. And the sets were long, you know, it was like a three hour set for basically no money to and then we played some other like, you know, ticketed shows with door splits. But I do want to say that there's totally a difference in what, you know, musicians get paid here, professional musicians, or even just like a local band, like my band, you know, young musicians. I feel like there's a lot of more bargaining power from, you know, the musician side. Yeah, maybe just more respect for the work, you know, in in a financial aspect, right. That's really interesting. Which is interesting, because, as you say, I mean, I don't know if you hear but I have a lot of friends telling me that Europe, that's that way more than the US, right? The Europe like respects for musicians, they pay them well, honestly, I don't know. But I hear that. But you know, from my side, it's kind of like the other way around where I'm like, Yeah, you know, Argentina. Monetarily is a great city, but like in terms of pay, and just professionalism towards the musicians. I feel like, here in the US, it's just, you know, way more events.
Chris Webb
Yeah, it reminds me when I when I was in Slovenia, just just on a vacation, I met a street performer. I think he went by the name wolfman or something like that. Wonderful dude. But he had traveled the whole world, basically just street performing. And he had made his entire life that way. And that's all he wanted to do. He was that Nomad style. And I remember talking to him about, you know, do you ever come to the US and he's like, why would I do that when I make so much money here in the in traveling through all these different countries around Europe? And I was like, What do you mean? Like I thought in my head, like, what does that mean? You know, but it's you saying that just sort of like reminded me of how different you know our economies are, and how we value our differently. It's so many ways, in different parts of this world. And you don't realize it until you work in those markets, right? You just you just have no way to really understand it until you've tried moving around it. Right. So would you say that the value of art itself is still as valid? In Argentina? Yeah.
Zoë Moff
Yeah, for sure. I feel like there's a there's a huge cultural sphere. And yeah, people just really appreciate the music and the art and the culture. So that's yeah, incredibly valuable.
Chris Webb
And it's so ingrained in the culture, right, in the history of every culture, there's so much music, that that is like the underlying reminder of your past. You know, it's also something I think that you don't recognize sometimes within your own culture so much, at least in American culture, I don't feel like I recognize it as much as I do when I travel to other countries and hear their origin styles, instrumentation, and, you know, sometimes it's even how direct they are about certain subjects in their lyricism. I feel like we're always very gentle in American songs you know about, if we're going to talk about love, we're not going to get too deep in the level. Keep it nuanced. So let's kind of forward a little bit to where you said, you recorded your first EP. Yeah, talk a little bit about you as an engineer, and like how that kind of began and how and where you're at now?
Zoë Moff
Yeah, totally. Um, so yeah, as mentioned before, that was my first experience in a recording studio, it actually all started because I used to take just composition, music theory, and drum lessons, the drum kit with this engineer, and musician, of course, who owned these recording studios, and he lives, actually, on the same block when I was younger, with my parents. That was great. And yeah, every time I would go to the lessons, you know, we would be at the studio, and I was just blown away by the board itself. You know, I didn't really know anything else, but just the board and all the faders and the knobs. I was just like, so cool, you know, and, yeah, when I put together these duo, I told him, I was like, you know, after a year of playing together, I was like, Hey, we have a lot of songs, and we want to record something. And he was just super supportive. Actually, shout out to him because he was one of like, my main mentors throughout my youth years in music, and he was just so supportive. And he was a yeah, just come in, like, well, I'll produce it for you guys. And it was honestly, like, one of my favorite experiences and memories that I have from my career. It was so so so just soothsaying and he was able to guide us through like a lot of the recording process s 16. All musicians. Yeah. It was just incredible. And, you know, it was just an acoustic guitar and, and you know, a voice. So I remember him just trying out different miking techniques. And I really didn't understand anything, of course, but I was just just really curious and looking at everything. Yeah, I remember when we were tracking vocals, I would be in the control room, you know, we came and the other engineer just always asking so many questions, you know, and I remember clearly looking at the patch bay, which is, you know, the little little punch thing with different holes where you can punch hard work, you know, in and out the board
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Zoë Moff : https://www.zoemoff.com/about
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