81. Delivering Unparalleled Music Experiences: Giving Your Fans Everything They Deserve with Andy Frasco
season 3, episode 21
Episode: 81
Welcome to Musicians Tip Jar where we talk about musicians and money. We try to convey the idea that where you focus your energy, you will get results. I'm Chris Webb joined by my co-host, whose results speak for themselves. Dave Tamkin.
Dave Tamkin
Thanks for having me back, Chris. Always a pleasure to be on this podcast. Podcast. I think it's the Chicago that comes out, especially after just listening to this next guest’s accent.
Chris Webb
It's funny about accents, because sometimes you don't realize that you have one until someone else points it out. But some people really know they have it. You know? Where's the line?
Dave Tamkin
In this episode? Listening back, there were some times where even the tone of our voice was almost similar. So, like, did I just sound that articulate? Oh, no, that was the end. It wasn't. It wasn't me talking, but it kind of sounded like me.
Chris Webb
Yeah. So today we sit down with fellow Denver artist and entrepreneur Andy Fresco. He brings all his experience and drive right to you so that you can find the drive in yourself and go out and do all the shit that you want in this one life. Today's quote comes from our guest, Andy Fresco. He said people are afraid to give their full potential of who they are as a person on stage.
Quote of the week
“People are afraid to give their full potential of who they are as a person on stage” - Frasco”
Non-profit of the week
Founded in 2000, Guitars in the Classroom trains public elementary school teachers from coast to coast to sing, play folk instruments, write lyrics for learning, and teach all standard subjects through hands-on music and the power of song. GITC’s efforts focus on serving students during their most formative years. This is when foundational skills in speaking, reading, writing, and thinking, as well as interpersonal skills and emotional intelligence, can grow quickly. Learn more at https://www.guitarsintheclassroom.org/
Chris Webb
You may know our guest Andy Frasco from his music, his live shows, his podcast, or maybe his inspiring social media rantings. He is who he is. And that is something that he has worked hard to show the world both onstage and off, and we love him for it. We have known Andy for a long time, and it's such a pleasure to sit down and hear his story and how he found his place in the music business. This is also a good spot to mention that Andy's personality includes all the swear words in the English language. So for any very young or sensitive listeners, Please be warned that there is some strong language well, let's go.
Chris Webb
Andy Frasco is an entertainer, singer-songwriter, podcaster, and easily the hardest working tour musician that I have ever met. Welcome to the Musicians Tip Jar.
Andy Frasco
Guys. This is awesome. I could talk shop with the first person ever. I played with in fucking Denver, Colorado, and I was telling you that last week, Chris yep,
Chris Webb
I remember. It was us three. Dave
Andy Frasco
You, me, and Rob Drabkin? Yeah. Rob Drabkin, like a CD release party or something? Totally. The wallet room at Homevibe Presents Mike Ligon. I remember. Yeah.
Chris Webb
Yep. And it's crazy that that venue isn't there anymore. It's really sad that that's now a golf course or something like that. Oh,
Andy Frasco
I was always looking for them because I'm not really like, that. Those were the years when I was really getting wasted and just getting to town and not knowing where the fuck I was. And now that I live in town, I've always wondered where the water room was because I had bomb pizza. Pizza being so fucking good. Pizza is still good.
Dave Tamkin
But now I get to go play golf in the back against the screen. Oh, so they
Andy Frasco
took out that whole stage and they built like a little pup putters on
Dave Tamkin
They have four screens with cages, so you just go in the back and then hit the ball against the screen. The computer sees it, and, you know, the scenery changes.
Andy Frasco
Well, they know that the music industry makes no fucking money. So we're going to call.
Chris Webb
The funny thing is, the same musicians that used to go there to perform or prior to going there to practice their golf now.
Andy Frasco
Think about the memories they had in that room.
Andy Frasco
Oh, that's kind of sad. Yeah. Tell me about this podcast. What
Andy Frasco
What are you guys talking about? Yeah, our
Chris Webb
The goal here is that no one quits because of money.
Andy Frasco
We just talked about the wall in the room quitting.
Chris Webb
Yeah, the things around you always change. That's kind of been the theme with so many guests: you just have to learn how to pivot. Right? You are such an example of someone who knows how to pivot. And so let's go, let's start, let's start with, because I think of your origin story. And I remember we had a late night conversation one of these nights when we played a show about your story, and I was just blown away at how much you had already done. And I don't know how old you were at that time, maybe like 20 And you had already done more than I feel like most musicians, no done in their careers. So let's start with how you got into this music industry and what the first like five to 10 years of your career were like.
Andy Frasco
Um, I started when I was like 50 I mean, I fell in love with the music industry because I work and I love it. I didn't know how to play an instrument, but I just I went to my first concert. I think it was like Incubus at a cuz I grew up and he they play like the Hometown Heroes are from Calabasas. So they're like, the city kings. And they played a show at this like Mexican restaurant for the record morning view. I was like an eighth grader or something that went there, and I saw how cool the music industry was, it was just so cool. Everyone like they made anything they made this shitty Mexican restaurant look cool. You know, like, I fell in love with the music industry. And I didn't know how to play an instrument. But I was confident enough to be in the industry. So I just faked my age and asked for internships at all these record labels in Los Angeles. I was into like pop punk music at the time. So I got an internship at Drive Thru Records, and they had newfound glory, something corporate MSPs are expand. It's all my fair bands, dashboard confessional. I'm like, I'll do whatever, I'll do whatever. And I was just like, kind of I was like been six foot my whole life. So I kind of lied about my age, told them I was like, 1819, I'm in college, but I'm like, going into ninth grade. Like, I got the job, I got to figure out how to keep pretending that I'm older. And I would just like make friends with my teachers. And they'd let me if I got all my homework done and I got good grades, stay in their rooms in high school and take all these business calls because I was running marketing at 15. I built on this like big marketing plan. I was like really into marketing, like, I read like guerilla marketing when I was like in seventh grade. And all you need to know about the music business by Donald Passman. And in eighth grade, going into when I got this internship, like, I know nothing about the music industry, I got this job,
Chris Webb
or that's because you were 15
Andy Frasco
It's amazing the competence you have when you're 15—like ignorance is bliss. The more times you get beat up, the more you're afraid to have confidence. Right? So I got a job at Drive-Thru Records. And then I got to be on guest list for every show. So I had to get a fake ID. So I got a fake ID. And I just go to every show. My mom was so cool about it, dropping me off at all these shows all around the city. And I was like pretending to like be 18 I was totally making out with 25 year-olds. Whatever, I'm here, let's ride, and then I just learned about the music industry. How cool was no fun now's when like bands were like really getting like big record deals. And like I was looking at contracts. I was obsessed with reading everyone's contracts, like, what? What are you obligated to do, or what are you liable for? And then I just fell in love with the music industry. And then I started my own management company and booking agency, which I didn't know was illegal in California. But as if I mean, I'm 15. I'm gonna be in trouble for way more things.
Chris Webb
Totally. I said, How many ways did you say illegal at that time?
Andy Frasco
You're already illegal. It's already illegal to form an LLC in my dad's name. Yes. Like a whole night of lifeline promotion, but they all said yeah, you're we saw passion you heard. So I learned about the music industry, and I would be booking bands. When Drive-Thru Records signed a band, I'd have to make sure their L.A. show was their showcase show. So I slammed it with like, because they wanted to show the publicist that they're already popping band, you know, it's like, that's like the game in LA. All the industry people come to the LA show. And I just felt like it took off, I was booking like nation tours, and then I got started booking the Roxy and the Key Club and, you know, all those L.A. shows. And then I turned 18 or 19. I just kind of got jaded by I was making really good money doing it. And I'm just like, all the bands that I'd worked hard for would just break up when, like, their girlfriends got pregnant, or they got married, or they just hated the bass player.
Dave Tamkin
They got caught making out with a minor. Yeah.
Andy Frasco
My girlfriend made out with a 15 year old so I was like I'm just gonna learn an instrument and take all the knowledge I learned from Drive Thru records and try to like, independently do it yourself, because I loved all those Do It Yourself bands at punk rock scene in LA All those guys were just, you know, printing flyers and passing them out in high schools everywhere. And you know, I remember my biggest mentor guys Schomer he was he had a company called Band Aid p Promotions,and he taught me how to promote myself and like go to every high school and pass out flyers and talk to people and learn how to talk to people. So from there, you know, is that 19 This is the fourth year so I got one more year, The fourth year 19 I just cold called 1000 venues and booked myself 90 I quit school. I went to I went to Los Angeles state for half a semester a semester. quit college my mom said you have a year. We all support you for a year. And so I was like I don't even want to wait a year so I started cold calling 1000 venues and the first venues that got me gigs Mike Ligon that was my first tour. He got me a show with you guys. And then the Midwest, Missouri, and blah blah. I didn't have a band. I had like $10,000 left for my Bar Mitzvah money and I bought a van and I just cold called and I got like 15 shows and I didn't have a band but I remember Chuck Berry always used to just hire local bands and I love the blues. So I just did that and found on Craigslist for the first year and just like hired dudes like Rob dropkick back me up and you know anyone I can in each city do hopefully at a draw so people could see me because no one knew that we were I mean, I'm just and I one year yeah, and I got I got my first gigs. And I was like, I fell in love with the road. I was like, Oh my God, I didn't know how to play an instrument I was just had three songs. I was like, I'd have to extend that extend like 40 minutes each song at the cheap the bar pop in, you know, I you know, your three is when I started of touring is where I started finding like my, my guitar player, Sean Eccles, my saxophone player, Ernie. And I just like instead of like, trying to, like bullshit my way through it. I was like, I actually started trying to write songs. And through that, I'm on your 15 right now.
Chris Webb
So let's do awesome.
Dave Tamkin
Speaking of Mike Ligon, he did a really good job when we told them that you are going to be on this podcast, he booked your episode to be played for first to fifth graders Music School for the rest of semester, so I really I really can't wait to see
Andy Frasco
kids. These Oh, not’t do what I did don't share towels. Don't share towels. And don't lie. Because you get bitten. Yes. You know, I've had I was my own booking agent for the first three years. Yeah,
Chris Webb
Let's talk that real quick. So you probably didn't introduce yourself as Andy, when you called as a booking agent, right? No, I
Andy Frasco
I introduced myself as Drew Mitchell. Because I, you know, when I was dealing with all these bands, whenever I saw a band that represented themselves, I didn't take the call. No, no, it took the call. So I was like, Okay, if I'm not going to do that, someone who's been in this industry for like, 20 years is probably not going to answer my email. So I just made up a name, Drew Mitchell, but my name is Andrew Mitchell, fresh through Mitchell for like four or five years, and I remember Mike, like I was late or something, or I got there late, and Mike was pissed. And he calls Drew Mitchell, and my phone starts ringing. And he's right next to me. And my phone is ringing. And he's like, You motherfucker. I built a great relationship that booked me in Denver for like five years. But yeah, I had booked myself out of the first three or five years. Yeah, it's crazy.
Dave Tamkin
We saw you the last time you came to the fox. And now knowing that relationship with Mike. It's kind of more fun than next time. Oh, yeah.
Andy Frasco
Oh, you went to my birthday party? Yeah. Thanks for coming to that, bro means a lot.
Andy Frasco
I remember always like being stoked of the songwriter scene in Denver. Because you really did have some like really great ones. You had Megan Burt, you had you Kenny had Chris I mean like you guys would just do these Circle round like the round circle songwriters stuff that like it reminds me of like hotel cafe in room five in LA and stuff. It was
Dave Tamkin
awesome. You're writing more songs with other songwriters too. You're collaborating more because, Caleb Holly, that was the last time I saw you down in Denver. Yeah, I opened for him, and you jumped up on stage because you were working on some tunes with him. Right?
Andy Frasco
Right. Yeah, I like collaborating with songwriters, and Caleb is a super talent. You know? I mean, he wrote a lot of that Vulfpeck stuff really grew up in Michigan. I mean, that's all his homies and stuff. And yeah, Caleb I like to write in Nashville too. Like, I like going to. I love going to that because it's like 60 songwriters that I'll write songs like 60 or 40 to 60 songwriters. Three of them in a room together, and we have to write a song in two hours, I try to do three sessions of those a day like when I'm in I'll do like two weeks of that and just, you know, build my chops on that. Yeah, I'm still I, like I said before, I'm still a lot of people started playing music, like when they're like 10 and a five, and I'm just trying to catch up.
Dave Tamkin
You have your own perspective from a different place in life than they did, and no one could compare those.
Andy Frasco
I keep on Do you ever do this? I always judge my journey with someone else's and get sad that I'm not as successful.
Chris Webb
We talk about comparison and how much it's like, the worst thing you can do for your career. Right. And I think
Andy Frasco
that's what makes people give up. Oh, yeah. When they're comparing themselves and like, comparing, you know, like, why didn't I get successful? Why didn't I get that record? Or why didn't I get that publishing deal? I used to beat myself up. I'd be like, Looking on Instagram, I see all my homies get record deals. And I'm out here and, like the kip, you know, sleeping on a frat house. Guy, that's how I got pinkeye. I was like, it was a shitty day. I was like, homies, you're getting famous American Pink Guy like, you know, lambda lambda lambdas. Sorority party. I'm like
Dave Tamkin
Dr. Dre and Jimmy Levine had this documentary basically about how they brought up these other musicians. But Jimmy Ievine said he never compared his success to other people's success. He was like a racehorse, where he always had the blinders on the side, like a racehorse doesn't know what the other horse next to him is doing. See that finish line that always stuck out to me in that documentary? You know, you're just going to push yourself further. Otherwise, yeah, you do. Start comparing yourself to others. And
Andy Frasco
Maybe that's success: tunnel vision. Just like not comparing yourself, not seeing who's still in the race, not seeing who's behind you, not seeing who's in front of you. Just do the work, and stop worrying about anyone else's life. That sounds selfish; don't do that. Stop focusing on other people's ways of doing their careers, because that's just distraction. And like, this music industry is so fucking hard needs 120% effort or you're not, it's not going to happen. You know, it's like being a pro athlete. It's very hard to be successful in this music industry. And you just need it just how badly do you want it? You know, it's like, that's why I admire that you guys are doing a podcast to talk about this. Now a lot of people are talking about giving up. A lot of people give up before they even reach their dreams. Yeah, that's my goal: to show people that I'm not the greatest fucking musician. I'm not the greatest songwriter; I just care a lot about the music industry. And I love chasing a dream. It's so fun to dedicate yourself to a dream. Yeah.
Dave Tamkin
How would you define that? Then you said, you know, the success of musician, what would you define as the most important qualities for a successful musician, both on and off stage,
Andy Frasco
probably doing it every day, and not having to have another job or worry about that. And just doing it not in the stressful way where I got to pay the bills. It's doing it because you want to do it. And I think that's when the best art comes out. When you're not like forcing. It's like constipation, like when you're forcing a trach
Dave Tamkin
I was going to ask what you're doing when you just said forcing.
Andy Frasco
got a bad gut from all the medicine. I have to take probiotics. Yeah, no, no, I definitely know about it constantly. And I'm Jewish and neurotic. So I got that from my mom, I got the Jewish stomach. But yeah, I just do it every day. And I do think about this a lot too. I don't think I'm successful. I'm like, I'm not at that point where I consider myself successful. Which is depressing for myself, because I feel like I should feel like I'm successful. I'm doing everything I want to do. You know, it's like, I just have to get out of my brain, this idea of the rat race, the American dream, keeping up with the Joneses. When we see our dreams, we just want more and more and more. And we never really get to appreciate, like, what we accomplished, you know, and maybe if we start appreciating and loving ourselves a little more, and being more gentle with the dream is not going to happen the way you want it to happen. It's going to happen, and when it happens, you just got to keep going and be a little gentle on like your deadlines. I think that's maybe how we could consider success or considered like longevity, you know, so
Chris Webb
let me just say a few things about how you're doing that. Well. First of all, you're such a good community supporter. There's a certain thing that you do that makes everybody else feel comfortable in the room and that's what you do on stage. That is why people have so much fun at your shows. And you leave an impression with that. That is such a power that so many artists that can call themselves you know, successful can't do still, you know, and in my mind, what you're doing is very difficult. Because I it's so against my personality when I get up there on stage, I cannot do what you're doing and I love watching it. It pumps me up just like everyone else even though I'm consider myself an introvert. I think you know, yeah, I remember one time, this is the last time you and I played a show together. You came in solo. And so you were like, I'll just play before you guys because I had my band. And I was like, okay, and then like 10 minutes before we started, you go, Hey, would you guys mind just coming up and backing me up for my set? Do you ever this? And I was like, Oh, God, I don't know. This sounds like a very, and I was like, Fine, we'll do it. I was so tired. By the time I was done playing backup for you that I could barely play my set.
Andy Frasco
I always do that, dude. I just want everyone to be involved
Chris Webb
With that, your community has power right there. Yeah, well,
Andy Frasco
Thanks for fucking doing that. I know that it was out of your comfort zone. I like how you guys can zip up a room, if that makes sense. Like everyone shuts the fuck up. You write and play songs. And maybe that's the intent. It's the same thing like I'm building. I just do in a different way I yell at them and write you guys like, suck them into the life.
Dave Tamkin
We suck the life out of the room. We’re going long? No one wants to be there any longer. Can I get up and use the bathroom? I don't know. Is he done with this song? I was told not to talk.
Andy Frasco
You know, like, you know, it's like they got you, and songwriters are like stand up comedians, you're by yourself. That's the most vulnerable, you could fucking be true. One of my favorite artists of all time is John Craigie. You know, John Craigie. Yeah, absolutely. The best goat, the best talker and storyteller, and how he could zip everyone into Charlotte. And listening to his heartfelt songs.
Dave Tamkin
Yep. That's beautiful. And just like listening to him talk about how he plans that set at the beginning of a tour. And how, you know, he tests stuff out, like in between banter, and then he gets to a certain city, like, almost dialed in. I almost got it dialed in. Yeah, it's fun to hear him talk about that process.
Andy Frasco
Because he thinks of it like a stand up comedian. Yeah. You know, like how they approach a special at the end of the year, they just chip away at the beats and get better at the beats, you know, play the songs at the right moment. I mean, that's just as powerful
Photo by: Stephanie Parsley
Chris Webb
We have to deal with our own self doubt. And on the other side of it, like, what part has money played in this development and your decisions in making this path work for you?
Andy Frasco
Every damn day, think about money. Jewish. Think about money every day? No, I had to take the idea out of my brain, that music is going to make me money. Because if I'm making music just to make money, then I'm not making art. You know, I used to think of it differently. I used to think I would be so rich in the music industry. When I first started, my calf have cars, I see all these, you know, rappers and rock stars, just Oren. And I had to take that idea out of my head that that was going to be me. And so I can focus on the music, because that's not focusing on the music, it's just focusing on the aftereffect of hopefully you writing a great song and getting a chip. So it's like, it's always like, thinking of the finish line. I realize, if we think of a finish line, then we're not going to write songs, because we're not thinking about the process to get to the finish line. So I think I took the equation out of there's a finish line, there's money to be made, and said, Why are you doing this in the first place, and it's about the music. And you know, it's like we could fill our ideas with if it's going to make money or not, but for thinking that it's going to make us money, than should probably just be real estate brokers or accountants, or it's too hard. I mean, I've been doing this for 15 years, and I finally started making money. And it's like, now with more money, I gotta get a bus and more money, I gotta get more $100,000 and merch and more money. It's like, you never make the money. It's just growing pains the whole time. Like, and this is more stress. Now you got to think about like, oh, well, there's a driver that needs to go to sleep. After eight hours, you got to get a hotel for them. And we'll look what with all about the music. And when you start thinking about it that way and let that and not think about the finish line idea of it.
Dave Tamkin
I think we were happier. What do you think?
Chris Webb
What I'm curious about is that with all of that, you are starting to see better results, as you kind of stated there. And that is something you've earned, right from your grind that you've done for the last couple of decades. Yeah, how much? How much now? Are you like you just said everybody is every bit of this money that's increasing now just going in back? Are you investing it back into your business to grow it some more? Or are you
Andy Frasco
Yeah, and you know, it's like, I've been paying my band like shit for the first 14 years of my life, I owe them. I owe them the raise that we're all getting, you know, we all dedicated ourselves and making 1000 to 2000 a month, 15 years, I can't remember when we started making money. I can't be like rolling in with like, a Gucci sweater. And so it's like, I got to, I got to, I got to start paying everyone because, you know, that's the thing. We we find the people that believe in us. And we have to have each other's back. Because this is when you start getting jaded. Like the finish line, like, oh, yeah, well, I finally made mine. I'm like, They leave their band. And then they have some record label, hire my band, there's no chemistry, and then the band sucks. And then they're unsigned. Like, don't lose if you have a magic with a group of people. You know, let's try to figure out a way to make it all work forever. Yeah, yeah.
Dave Tamkin
And those are the people that you want to spend your time with. Anyway. So yeah, enjoy that journey with them. Yeah, exactly. Like,
Andy Frasco
if we put up with 15 years of both lives, the joy, the fruits of our labor, you know, I don't want to be, I don't want to remember anyone. Through all the hard times we had, I want to remember through the heart getting to that euphoric moment as a band, like it was like, we felt that when we did Red Rocks, was 10,000 people there and I was like, looking at my band, we're all crying. It's like, finally did it boys. We're out of the frat house, out of the bar. We're out here at Red Rocks, and people are here to see us, and my mom's crying and our parents are crying. This is why we didn't give up.
Chris Webb
I'm not crying. It's just pinkeye.
Andy Frasco
I cried. My Maya, it's just goop. Miranda from Landelijke. No, but yeah, you know what I mean, it's like people forget, like, they just see a couple bad patches in a dream. And they don't realize that if you keep going, we're going to get through that row bump. It's like, that's why I'm so fascinated with sailors. I love the idea of a sailor sailing through the ocean, you know, there are beautiful times, and then there's some fucked up times, and then you get out of that storm. And it's beautiful again, and then you're looking at your mates,
Dave Tamkin
like, boys.
Andy Frasco
Alright, let's keep going. Because we have nowhere to go. There's no land anywhere. So we were stuck in this path. And I think that's how you got to see the dream. Like, you know, whenever you think of like a Plan B, I, if I have a plan B, then you're not thinking a Plan A like I don't know, I'm just been like that. I just like, put all my eggs in one basket. And let's fucking ride. You know,
Chris Webb
We've heard a lot of other guests also say the same kind of sentiment, where it's like, There, you don't need a plan B if you never give up on Plan A, like the idea is that you figure out everything you need to figure out along the way.
Andy Frasco
Right? Then life happens and you fall in love with a girl or you get a mortgage, or, God forbid, your parents are sick and you have to go back and be with the parents. Like all these things are just testing you on. Yeah, how badly you want Plan A, I guess?
Dave Tamkin
What are some of those challenges? Like, your biggest challenge is
Andy Frasco
Communicating with my band, talking to my band, we used to just get fucked up, go play shows, and not talk to each other for seven hours. And if maybe I pissed them off on stage and yelled at them. But we all got blacked out the neck that night and forgot about it. But we still remember the morning. We don't say anything. I think communication was something I got through things like any relationship: coping with months where we didn't make any money. We're making 250 shows at $250 a day for or a show for years. 500 of our shows and just had to keep going on the road. Like I remember, like, not seeing the numbers. We're only getting I'm only getting us like 300 to $600 a night. And I have a 35 year old man with a girlfriend in my band. And I have other people getting married and having kids. I had an old drummer who had had kids. So Mike All right. So we're going to have to do 71 shows and 100 days to make this money right. And beating all of us to the ground, tired. But other than that tour, I mean, we want to kill each other and but we didn't have enough money to kill each other. Yeah, to kill each other. So it's bad to be back in the van next week. I'm like, Hey, guys, I got another show booked in Oklahoma. You want to do it? Alright, let's go. I think we need to figure out a way to have this work-life balance, because, like, we are all getting older. My guitar player is 43 I'm 35. Ernie is 37 I mean, we're just getting older and they all have relationships. So now I can't throw these guys on 100 A tour anymore. It's just that it's kind of like learning because I'm a workaholic. Oh, work all day. But, like, I can't just save, I'll do it myself. You know, it's like, a selfish. So I think it's just like convincing my brain that the main goal is you're doing art and that's important
Dave Tamkin
I don't know how many times I said it during that episode about my face hurting from smiling so much, but I'm going to say it one more time. Because even when prepping for this, I haven't listened to it one more time. It's just a pleasure, the smiles he brings to the episode.
Chris Webb
I didn't tell this story. The way that this interview came about is that we had been meaning to reach out to him about being on the show for a while. And I was seeing my other friend Ali's performance; she was in town. And while I'm standing there in a room packed with people, this smoke all of a sudden came up next to me. And then it cleared slowly. And there's Andy standing there, and I'm like, Oh, it's like the universe brought him to me in a cloud of marijuana smoke. And it was pretty awesome. So I'm really glad that this worked out. And I appreciate that he gave us this time,
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