Episode 25

How Much Musicians Should Charge and What They're Worth

“How much do you usually charge?” We all have to face this question in our music business. It’s a question that despite its frequency, We still hesitate to answer or at least it feels like it is an answer we are still not sure of. There are always variables that make the correct number change but today we are going to help you know your numbers and create a rate guide.

0:00:01.5 S2: Welcome to the show that explores the methods and strategies on loan the financial side of your music business with over 40 years combined experience. Here are your host.

0:00:12.4 S1: Chris Webb and Dave taken.

0:00:15.7 S2: Well, consumes issue, HIPAA, we talk about musicians and money going rate these days seem to be going in all kinds of directions, we want to have a clear direction in which way your income is headed up. I'm your host, Chris web, Joan Vomica host, and the guy always worth the up charge, Dave Damen.

0:00:34.9 S1: Christine having me back. If I can only convince 100 venues a year to feel the same way you do about that up-charge being a very good place.

0:00:44.7 S2: Well, how much do you usually charge? We all have to face this question in our music business, it's a question that despite its frequency, we still hesitate to answer, or at least it feels like it is an answer, we are still not sure of, There are always variables that make the correct number change, but today, we are going to help you know your numbers and create a rate guide. Let's do this.

0:01:11.6 S1: Live string to 30 plus platforms simultaneously expand your reach and boost your views with the number one live streaming solution in the world, re-stream millions of people around the world use re-stream to reach, engage and monetize their audiences, their customers include professional and amateur gamers, Fortune 500 companies, media politicians, celebrities and definitely musicians, restrain keeps nurturing the product portfolio to empower content creators to reach wider audiences and brands to spread their messages throughout a massive network of streamers, they offer multi-streaming to reach a wider audience. Scheduler to automate your recorded videos live until your day on your streams go off without a hitch, engage viewers in a multi-chain, forget about TAP switching from multiple platforms, and you can't aim for success if you can't see your target, measure your success and get insights on your live stream across all 30-plus platforms on a single screen, but musicians Jr dot com deals to grab your seven-day free pro trial today. Welcome back, everybody. This week's non-profit is education through music, founded in 1991. They promote and support music instruction and disadvantaged schools in order to enhance students academic performance and general development, TM forms long-term partnerships with under-resourced elementary and middle schools, like the resources, develop school-wide user programs, ensure high quality instruction by hiring qualified music teachers, providing ongoing training and performing regularly.

0:02:42.3 S1: Program assessments regularly. I usually have a hard time with that word, Chris, but I think I did a pretty good job right there, E-TM encourages non-music teachers and music teachers to collaborate so that music can reinforce learning and development in all areas. They help schools embrace music as a core subject by involving all members of the school community. Etim also provides advisory services to organizations and schools around the United States, including advising two independent 501C3 organizations that replicate their model in schools and the lost Angeles and Denver communities, and now if they can only do that, crisper parents that think that video games are more important than learning music, learn more at EGM online dot org. Do you remember, Castle, how many parents would come in and be like, I'm sorry, they're just not doing good in school, so we're gonna have to pull them from the lessons or... Early on like, What video games did they play? This week. Oh well, they have a variety of games they play well, how about you take those away and then get Johnny in here, watches math skills go through the roof.

0:03:51.6 S2: You got a point, and make sure you make a point to... Rate and subscribe to our Podcast. Leave us a comment and go to our website and sign up for a week free weekly newsletter where we will deep dive into the week's topics even further and provide you with some other helpful resources for your music business. This week's quote of the week is by M. Scat pack. Until you value yourself, you won't value your time... Until you value your time. You will not do anything with it.

0:04:25.8 S1: Who's M? Scott Peck, Chris, tell me about him. Do you have the time? Now we gotta keep going. Okay.

0:04:32.8 S2: Next I did Google just to make sure he wasn't a Marxist, but... So first off, it should be said that having a quick answer when asked to how much question really isn't important, nor is it always a good idea to shoot out a number right away. Sometimes the best response is, Let me courage those numbers after I get all the details so I can give you an accurate quote, that being said, the main two factors when creating your personal rate CAD or parameters and variables, setting your parameters. First, what is the minimum? This can be broken down based on the least you are willing to work for... Try taking the average of the last 10 bookings you've received. This can also be influenced by your income goals for more on creating income goals referred to episode 11, widespread planet planet, like a circular planet that it's an outer space or plan it. Like make a plan. Okay, well, after you figured out what your minimums are, which is something you should really know, then you established your general rules, average acceptable distance, travel time, the conditions like loading in parking, accessibility, the average performance time equipment that you're required to have, and what's included for your standard work space.

0:06:07.3 S1: I think many musicians or get to calculate how much time it's gonna take to get there, how much time to load in to set up, that is part of the gig. So if you're getting paid for three hours, and obviously we're talking about non-ticketed shows here, but that's all part of it, so you might be playing for three hours or two breaks, but it's taken up six hours every day. Absolutely.

0:06:34.3 S2: And this isn't just for performers, this can also be used for people who are doing studio work or writing for other people, this rate guide is for gigging events, then you move to your variables, how much time would that distance the preparation, the research, practicing how much editing, depending on what it is that you are getting hired to do, how many times have you been asked to play a wedding, you said yes, and then they sent you 17 songs that they wanted you to play that wasn't in the original agreement in the past, it would be great if you play these songs and if you don't, we're gonna be pissed, you could see that in the fine print at the bottom, and you're like, Wait a second. Yeah, I think sometimes that happens when they don't actually realize that they're doing that, they don't realize how much time it'll take you to actually perform those requests well, if you don't already know them, so how much of your special resources are you utilized, gear and space, your unique locations. This can also apply it for people, I have a studio and some of the studio equipment, the sound proofing stuff can be very expensive, and how much work did you put into putting that stuff in.

0:07:50.8 S1: How many plugins do you on...

0:07:52.7 S2: Right. Oh God. And then your notoriety, another variable. Yeah, you in demand right now is that you have high experience going rate in your market, some markets are more expensive than others, and unfortunately, the location will produce how much you can ask to make, but that also can reflect on the cost of living in that area. And learn that lesson. Moving from Chicago to Denver, a 2008, the amount of shows, there was no way I was gonna be able to double that as price strapped in half in Denver as they paid in Chicago. It was a huge lack of call that I probably should have researched before.

0:08:35.3 S1: Wow.

0:08:36.5 S2: And then of course, the other variable, the last one on my list here is about weekdays or weekends, that a factor of... Am I playing on a Wednesday night when I'm most likely? Usually just watching that the is this high season weekend in September in the Rocky Mountains when the Aspen are turned and gold, so that changes the price, at least it should... So now that you've got your parameters, any variables, it's time to create your rate guide, you can find this rate guide sample that we're describing on our website by searching rate guide, think of your rate guide as your compass when quoting your services, and... Yes, you will likely need separate ones for your various types of services, for example, I have one for instructions, and then I have one for performances. So when you see instructions, you mean like teaching rejection services, so you take these parameters and you create your range, you list the cost of your main variables, you keep the numbers simple so that you can do the quicker math, you create your guide by listing these numbers on a single sheet or a digital note, stick it to it to the man before he sticks it to you, stick to it and make adjustments and tweak it as you build your business.

0:10:04.9 S2: So here is an example, a quick example of how I use my rate guide to be able to make accurate quotes that stick to my goals and parameters, if you wanna see these with your own eyes, actually, you do remember to go to musicians to dot com and search Rate guide. So as my description goes, I'd say this is just a sample, this one is, in average, this isn't meant to be anybody specific, artist profile, five years experience gigging, piano, singer-songwriter, and so for his solo or her solo performance is... The minimum is 250 on a week day, 300 on the weekend. Very simple. That's the base. That means if they get offered to play for 200, they will ask for more, or turn to get down...

0:10:57.2 S1: And that's hard to do. Turn the gig down, there's always someone waiting in the wings to take it for less than you, but do they have the experience you do, not only being proficient in your skill set, but show up on time, professional... People want you back. There's a lot of different factors that go into that, but I remember one saying, Well, we've been slow this week, maybe next month, can we try it at this rate, and knowing that if I said no, that there's gonna be someone right behind me ready to take that and all they're doing is lowering the market value for all musicians, and they're just screwing over everybody, not only themselves, but you have to have a standard for yourself, and it has to start there

0:11:45.7 S2: When... I don't think, no matter of what we do, there'll always be those musicians who have that, they may not even realize it, but they have... Their minimum is lower, and that's okay, there's always gonna be that market too, but I do believe that you can set the standard that you pay for what you get, if you bring your A game and your minimum is 500 or whatever it could be arborea then, but if that's what you're worth when you show up, then no one will Baden to that, so after you've set your minimum, next moved to your parameters. My sample parameters here for this artist are within one hour, under three hours performance time, a small PA or less required, and no new material required to learn. So those parameters are what, stick to your 300 on a weekend and 250 on a week day. Then your variables come in, 5-50 for every hour extra that this person has to drive, so to venues two hours away, they're gonna charge an extra 100 because it's gonna take them two hours each way instead of just one, which wouldn't have cost any extra... Another variable they have, he's a 100 extra per hour for performance time, so if it goes over three hours, every extra hour is another 100 bucks, 50 up to two custom song arrangements.

0:13:19.5 S2: This one is, I think, very handy because of what we just talked about when people surprise you with their 17 requests, a big to the... You have to have that on some sort of written form that says As soon as you ask me for this, if you really want me to learn them, and please know that it's 50 for each two that you really want me to learn, but I will learn them fantastically. And then lastly, I have a variable for the sample artist that says 100 for any large PA set up, or if... Sometimes if somebody wants to rent a microphone of yours to make speeches on or use for, say, a ceremony, you can charge for that extra, so those are extra things that you make as variables to add on to your basic parameters to make your accurate quote.

0:14:11.1 S1: And after a pandemic, it's smart. Do you have another microphone that you charge for, 'cause you don't need everyone... Revenue microphone talking on it right

0:14:21.7 S2: Now, I bring that, I bring some spray and I wipe that thing down about once an hour for the speeches or whatever am I events, because I don't wanna be responsible for spread anything, even a call. It is really gross just to pass around a megaphone anyway, so a small four-hour local weekend gig with two song requests would be simply 450 using this artist profile, his rank, easy, this structure can be created from solo all the way up to big bands, studio recording services, selling, production, teaching, coaching, etcetera. You should have a basic rate guide for each of your main income-generating areas, then you need to stick to it, and the more your finances are prepared to roll with the punches, the more consistent and confident in sticking to your guide you can be... For more on budgeting, referred to episode 9, music budgeting. Don't fear the repo. The other question that is connected to this topic, how much are you and your services worth... This is of course, a very different answer, and then how much we charge, unfortunately, at least that's how it often feels, we live in a free market society, which is great, it is critical to be allowed to charge what we want, and if your rate guide matches the market, well, you will be very successful and fulfilled, but sometimes I'd even say often, we must dance the balance of our wealth of experience and talent and the opportunities, max rate, if you over bid the market, you will know because you won't be working much entrust like if I took the Chicago rates to Denver.

0:16:25.7 S1: That would be laughed at. Are you kidding? And even now, you can look to your peers to find out what that market worth is, there's a new venue that just opened up in Denver, I have a few friends that have played it, and I was asked how much would be cast on a weekend... I call those friends that I know that play that already and said, Hey, I don't wanna come in too high or too low. Would you mind sharing that? And it worked out well.

0:16:54.2 S2: The pan Deming tested this for many performing musicians, some having to take almost any gig regardless of this parameters due to the low demand and the scarcity of opportunity just to pay their bills. This was a great demonstration of why rocking and rollers need a large enough emergency fund and have good income diversity to roll when things get Rocky. See what it in there. So here's some other general negotiation tactics for you, stick to your guide and trust yourself, this even means being willing to walk away, money is attracted to confidence, you take the low ball rate and you'll end up not being available for the big ticket opportunity that shows up after you're confirmed with the low ball, I always try to have a client name the price that they're interested in first when it's a big event or opportunity, often these have their numbers or their budget set, especially corporations have found that they already have the budget set aside so you can cut to the Jason to say, what's the budget for this event? And you go from there, there's always negotiation, but never feel rushed to a number... We aren't in that kind of business.

0:18:15.9 S2: And the pressure typically only blinds your clarity to making a good decision, so a final note revisit your guide once a quarter and make sure it still lines up sometimes of the year will often be higher minimum rates, higher demand than other times. So you'll want to adjust accordingly, this guide is only that a guide... In the end, you want to collect the top dollar for your services that you can, and each opportunity will present different way to make that happen. And lastly, this guy does not apply when working on asset building projects, like your personal song writing, music releases, YouTube videos, online instruction, courses and books, so I'm really into giving only one action right now, the less action steps have been more effective. So here we go with just one again this week, go to musicianship jar dot com and download the rate guide, build yours, pick whichever one we use the most, and watch your income injuries, if you do wanna give us some feedback and let us know how we're doing what are other things you might like to learn about or talk about... What's the best way to get a hold of his day? You can send us an email and musicians Tatar at gmail, or look us up at musicians Tihar dot com, and if you haven't yet, and I have given you a lot of time during this podcast upsell for you to tune out and go over and read subscribe, but if you haven't, please go over real subscribe and comment and do whatever you can do to help us get more of the word out, as always, thank you for joining us and remember, there's already enough for everyone, you just need to know how to get it.

0:20:03.9 S2: Until next time, on behalf of the Tamil, Chris was Please stay safe, stay healthy, and take care of each other. If you wanna increase your work of your services, quit giving your clients the calculator, this is musicians

0:20:18.2 S1: To cementing on this show should be considered specific personal or a fracture advice, and please consult an appropriate tax legal business we underpin for individualized advice. Individual results not guaranteed, and will discuss strategies have the potential for profit loss, the still operating on behalf of musicians temperature oluse