Episode 22

The Hidden Gems of Knowledge in One Hit Wonders with Storm Gloor - Part 2

Some of the most valuable lessons in life often come the hard way or at least it can feel hard to accept them. Even when we know these lessons to be true, we resist their reality as we want a different one. Sometimes our resistance is capable of changing the outcome and sometimes it is just swimming up stream.

0:00:01.5 S1: Welcome to the show that explores the methods and strategies on blocking the financial side of your music business with over 40 years combined experience. Here are your host, Chris Webb and Dave tamiami. Ian stepchild.

0:00:19.9 S2: We talk about musicians and money, if you're listening to this, then you're back for more for these hot tips from studying the hot heads with storm glory. I'm your host, Chris web, joined by my co-host and the one who's always hot hot hot, Dave Danni think I was just worried for you to say something else other than tips or... I had a lot, a lot of it, yes. I was close. Okay, I know what you're going, I don't even know what you're talking about, but I don't... Willet to your attention? Let's jump right back in with the rest of our conversation with storm glory while the water is one. So your research was conducted with national data and artists that sold thousands and thousands of records, and before streaming even figured into the charge calculations, how could it be relevant for a local or regional musician in a business where Album sales are less a part of the revenue mix.

0:01:22.3 S1: Yeah, I was thinking about the whole time that I was publishing this paper, and as any scholar does, I was thinking what's the first criticism that I might get for this, and that was the very question that I know... Expected to get. I was surprised that I didn't get... I didn't receive it, but I still wanted to answer that in my mind, before I put this research out, it's two papers, by the way, and my answer is that I think the patterns I saw because of their consistency at a national level, I think they still apply at a local level, as I said earlier, you might see that peak of five years being popular in your city, whatever that might be, or your state or your region, and because I compared those numbers to general occupations and the length of athletes careers, and when I even thought about performance studies that I have read before, we all peak, no matter what the achievement you're trying to reach might be, we all have those peak times, and I call it an ART, we all have that are... And I think it applies regardless, and whether you're a platinum selling artist or whether you're selling records to your friends, you still need to be thinking in as what do I do next? Or, how do I re-invent myself? Which, in fact, if I looked at the artists who lasted a long time, 80% of them, that's just against...

0:03:04.5 S1: But as I looked at him, they were all artists who reinvented themselves... Absolutely. And so if you're thinking about on a local level, what you're going to do, think about how after four or five years, you recognize that your fans are coming in here in the same songs, they're seeing you dress the same way, they're seeing your style staying pretty much the same, what could you do to maybe change that because it could work to your advantage and extending that period, so that's my argument there, I don't know if it'll stand up in a core a law, but that's my answer.

0:03:42.0 S2: I think that might be the best advice that we've gotten so far in this entire show, because so many people need to hear that, and Chris, I think we need to open up a Etsy and get rid of our denim. Yeah, not ready to get rid of my data.

0:03:57.3 S1: Let's take it one at a key crazy. But you know the names, Sinatra boy, Elton John, just about everybody on that list of artists who were outliers, they all recognized that they can't go on doing the same thing for a long time, it

0:04:15.3 S2: Keeps ticking Delos, soon as he picked up the electric

0:04:18.7 S1: Tend, Madonna prince you

0:04:22.1 S2: Just know all those people on the Teradata, like as an independent artist, sometimes you feel like that seems like it's more of an insulting thing to have to accept, but then you start to think about the people we just named all did it. The top names are the ones who understand the business well enough to know that that needs to happen even at the top level, so that should tell us little that we need to be thinking that way as well. Right.

0:04:55.4 S1: Well, look locally, Nathan, your right little 210. It ain't the same guy you're seeing in 2021 it...

0:05:04.6 S2: Oh man. That's a great example. And they're also creating new music, like you said, you're playing the same set for five years, not only are they creating new music, but they're listening to what's going on around them, what's in the local scene and how his music changing and how can they put their twist on that and grow at the time.

0:05:24.0 S1: There's this irony, I hope this isn't too far of a digression, but there's this irony that when you're starting off as an artist, there is what you wanna play and what your fans want to hear, and hopefully those are in sync but sometimes you have to think, But what will get me an audience, and that may mean slightly changing what I'm doing now and getting that audience then slightly getting back to what I wanna do. I always use John Mayor as an example. He was a get part A blues guitar, he was a great guitarist, but he and his management, I presume, recognized that if he's gonna get the audience working in the genre, if he's gonna go to a mass audience, sounds like Your Body is a Wonderland and the pop songs that we're gonna build that audience got him to that point. And then what did he do? He went back to what he really wanted to do, right. Fan saw it as a transformation, I saw it as genius. Yeah.

0:06:28.1 S2: He has that album where he does the three sets were the first set is him acoustic, and then it's the trio that does all the moves, and then it does with his band of all the biggest hits, and that's a great documentary to watch because there's a moment where he comes off the stage after the trio, the kinda blues, deep blues music, and he's like, Boy, surged I've got all those hits to go back on its stage with... There.

0:06:55.0 S1: You know. Yeah, like

0:06:57.0 S2: You know, he's feeling that pressure. Did you observe any patterns among artists who are outliers, those who had higher than average lengthy chart careers?

0:07:06.0 S1: Well, our last conversation was a perfect SAWA here, because one thing I saw was these artists transformed themselves and met the times that they didn't... And actually, there was somewhat of a paradox in that they either transformed themselves with the times and to keep it fresh, and I mean, they're sound their look everything, they kept re-branding in a sense, but then I also saw that so to owned their spot, they're stick right, and they kept with it too... If you take a band like Motley crew that had a very long career, you know what, they never really stepped far out, I didn't get a motley crew converter was a cold coverage record, but it was... Stayed within their sound. Right. They didn't record an AC record or have that type of thing, and they might not be the best example, but if the Ramones at a long-standing career, relatively speaking and alarm, but they had a solid career and because they stuck to what they did, because it was... Unique.

0:08:18.7 S2: And it was working.

0:08:19.8 S1: And it was working. Yeah, so it's one side or the other it... What I'd see is artists who stood out, you could not say that anybody else was like them, or you... Artist who transformed themselves. The other thing I noticed to songwriter Take this one, most of the time, they were people who wrote their own songs and were part of their creative, much more involved in their creative process than artists who weren't like the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC. They are also victims of an age group that they decided to attach themselves to and that change, but the other part of it is even outside of that, people who didn't usually write their own songs or handle their own production and things like that, you didn't say those... People... And

0:09:09.2 S2: So just in timber they go would be another example of someone who reinvented that situation... Right, yeah.

0:09:16.3 S1: And he should be committed to coming out of a boy band... He did that very well.

0:09:20.6 S2: It's not easy to do, right? Right, yeah, and then he went into acting, so I guess he just keeps finding... Finding a way to change.

0:09:29.6 S1: Well, he's a great example of something that when I do... If I do that study again, 20 years from now, I bet that I find that artists who branded themselves as brands better than others, that will probably show up with the longer careers and just in Timberlake a great example of that. As will be the case, I predict with artists like the weekend currently, who are great at building their brand along with producing great music, a winning combination, for sure. Or long-term careers.

0:10:08.3 S2: Billy Al, if you have a chance to see her documentary on Apple TV, it's unbelievable, and I don't think she's going anywhere for very long.

0:10:17.4 S1: Yeah, I've been told by my students... I need to check that out too.

0:10:20.4 S2: Yeah, that it's an amazing opposite end, what makes us or the artist to be able to write so many hits, how do they do that? And next to what you're saying is, songwriting is at the core of it, right? It is such an important factor to be able to reinvent yourself, but also to be able to write for the Times and right for the moment, right? Something that hits people in the right place, right. Insertion still the core.

0:10:47.1 S1: Yeah, but it's still a multiple choice thing, I mean, you look at who didn't write his songs right, but he kept transforming himself, so it's not as if one... I don't know, that's the study maybe does one compensate for the other, but you gotta have one of those things going for you strongly.

0:11:09.5 S2: Being such a lover of music, when did you find your passion to teach and inspire other musicians in their careers...

0:11:22.9 S1: Well, the quick version of it is that I was working in the music business, particularly with record labels, and I had this talent for guessing and predicting successful albums and artists, and I was really good at that, and I was good at the retail side, I studied record stores, so I ran a retail chain, for instance, the music side of it, and I always felt like I was being selfish, I'm selling people's stuff and all that. There's a reason to feel good about that, but I wasn't helping people, and I always wanted how I could combine the love of music with actually helping people, and I was invited to speak at Middle Tennessee State University, and the first... That was just after 9-11 happened. I was emitted there to speak and it hit me... Do you remember that same from The Blues Brothers movie, very standing in church and the with light shines through the windows, and Elwood realizes that, he realizes he's found his passion, I literally stood in front of those students and I said, This is it. Wow. And I flew back home and signed up for a grad school and started pursuing teaching after that, 'cause now that I can teach students how to get into this business, I feel so much more of a reward and teach musicians, you know this program that I'm doing that you all set in on yesterday, I just get the trail out of seeing people pursue their passion...

0:13:01.3 S1: Absolutely, particularly for music, and I feel so much better than knowing that we made a lot of money 'cause I bought the right product for the stores and things like that, and I will admit, this was also... This was also during the age of Napster, and the idea of... Or the concept of record storage lasting too much longer when I saw a Napster, I would admit that I could see the writing on that wall too.

0:13:28.9 S2: So you were sort of re-inventing yourself

0:13:32.0 S1: In a way I was... You got me. You caught me. So

0:13:36.6 S2: Comes around, going back to what you said, it's like it's hard to wrap your head around and it's all or nothing, or that there's so much that you can do within the music business and still feel fulfilled as an artist. That's what I think that people are taking away from college that they don't get... If they don't attend college. Is that it's a big business. I really like though, that you did bring up that pay attention to all the careers that are around you, helping you build your career, because as you're learning this, do you have an opportunity to help others? Maybe it is as a producer or a manager or tour manager or something else that you can do within or do sinks with other people that you find on the road and start to network young in your career, so you can have those people and grow with them if your one goal doesn't make it to where you think it's gonna take, you storm, if an artist has their goal just set on being an artist, someone who's famous or making it as just a career or performer in front of people, what are their odds of...

0:14:46.8 S2: Just even being a one-hit wonder, what's the percentage of people that just get a one-hit?

0:14:52.8 S1: Well, it's 432%. And I know that's daunting to hear a figure like that, but understand this... From two perspectives here. One being a one-hit wonder. Is not a bad thing either. Is that one hit? And remember, I'm talking about the national charts, I bet you could name plenty of artists if you looked at Paul right now, you could look down the schedule, the touring schedule, and see lots of one hit wonders who are still touring and making money 20 years later, 30 years later. And so, first of all, being a one-hit wonder shouldn't be recognized for what it really sounds like, Well.

0:15:39.1 S2: Someone like Dan Wilson, who wrote Closing Time, I mean, still an unbelievable career as just a songwriter, you know, after the band was no longer playing together, he's writing with the Dixie Chicks, just to name one. And yeah, and Adel. So I think what you're saying here is so important because if you... Regardless if it's just being a performer and have that 432%, whatever you go to in the music business, it's good to keep your eyes open and be able to diversify and protect yourself maybe from something like a pandemic where your performance is... Your money is so dependent on performance and being in front of people... Yes, well said so, to diversify as something that's really important to do and as a career.

0:16:30.8 S1: Dan Wilson turned that one hit into a plethora of opportunities, and you can name so many other people who have done that.

0:16:39.9 S2: His drummer wrote a book, so you wanna be a rockstar.

0:16:43.1 S1: Yes, I highly recommend. Yeah, I'm at him at South by Southwest, really nicest guy, and had so many stories to tell about that experience of closing out their Grammys one year and then trying to find a gig the next... Yeah.

0:16:59.0 S2: Chris, we gotta put that on our book club on the website, that's as you wanna be a roster, I'll never get rid of it and they have it myself all the time, 'cause it just makes me feel good, just even seeing the title because I just remember feeling so good when I read it because he was so honest and open, and you got a pretty cool insight to... Behind the scenes.

0:17:19.7 S1: Yeah, I always wanna do that as part of this project, to us go back and visit with people and actually meet these One-Hit Wonders and interview them, and tell me about that other side of their career and the decision that sent them one way or the other, even to write a book, I mean, he probably... He probably had as much writing that book as he did in a year after closing time came... I beat a drummer.

0:17:49.6 S2: I look forward to your book store. Yeah.

0:17:52.7 S1: Well, it's truly...

0:17:53.4 S2: Your book will be a book of hope. That's the thing, is those people don't just stop at... That's what is the fear. That is unreasonable

0:18:02.2 S1: Head back to the comment about local musicians, I had mentioned this yesterday, maybe all were there. Chris Daniels, my colleague, Chris Daniels. Another note, 40 years, right? He's not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but he's in the Colorado music college. Right. And I call that a success. I don't know if he's living in a mansion, but I bet he's happier at the end of the day that most people who go to bed at night. And again, Chris, you asked about the money, we don't know what money these people are making and we don't know what the income streams look like after they have their one hit, but we know they have happiness doing their job and being able to delve into other opportunities as Dave mentioned, with an experience that no one else has a... Right, and being on that stage and being in front of those people and being in the recording studio as a musician makes you a better producer, makes you a better booking agent, makes you a better press or publicity person, whatever it might be, where you take it... That experience you get in as a musician can pay you dividends no matter where you go with it.

0:19:15.8 S1: Right.

0:19:16.7 S2: Absolutely. And I also try to remind everyone that money is not the only type of wealth, right, Elise feeling that you get from doing what you do it, you're feeling wealthy with the family and the friends and the experience and the whole thing is health.

0:19:34.2 S1: Yeah, there's so much job satisfaction, studies have shown with being a musician, having that feedback from the fans that you get... You can't put a price on that.

0:19:45.6 S2: Yeah, I wouldn't drive two and a half hours to go play for 45 minutes and then it getting sudden amazing out of that. I know it, storm, thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us. We really, I feel like we're just scratching the surface with so many topics that we would love to talk about with you some more, hopefully we can do this again soon, if anyone would like to get in touch with you or be a part of this amazing projects that you've got going on. What's the best way to find you?

0:20:15.5 S1: Storm, Gloria gmail dot com. And I bet you could Google me and I'm the only storm, Gloria Glo, or I bet I'm the guy. A great branding. Great branding. I'll thank my mom for that.

0:20:31.7 S2: Well, have a great night. Thank you so much for being here. Well, I also wanted to say that this is the first time that we've done an interview where the interview we requested a later time than we offered, 'cause we always do 800 pm, and then storm says, How about 10? So that's pretty impressive. But thank you again for being here and we look forward to doing this again.

0:20:50.6 S1: You bet. Thank you for having me.

0:20:54.1 S2: Welcome back, everybody. What an amazing journey we went through on that one, I feel like I changed my entire mindset on how to approach finding new ways to make income and a new attitude at how we look at learning from our experiences, you know, at first it was positive when he was talking about how long someone's career I could be, and then I felt negative when I thought four to seven years, but then he said As long as we change our gene jackets, we could reinvent ourselves and try again, and joking aside. It is nice to know that as a song writer, just to keep that type of mind, you know, stay on your game, change it up, continue to be creative, and if anyone knows what it's like to be stagnant, it's definitely me... Four years of my career, I don't think I wrote new stuff, and it's been fun to start to be creative again, not only with his podcast, but with writing and play new music with friends, well, and That humbling idea that there is always an arch to your career, but that arch doesn't always mean the only arch, right, but it is a humbling thing for all of us to reflect on our own careers and say, there was the arch, there was...

0:22:10.8 S2: And this is what I did after that, and this is what I'm working on now, and there's another arch, and so it really made me step back and look and analyze the way that I'm approaching things, and it really gives you a great focus. I'm making sure that each thing you're doing is helping you branch out into a few more things, 'cause it can be repeated over and over again, it just is that the one that you arched before will likely lead to different efforts afterwards. There's a great book called The Dip by South codon. I strongly recommend it, and that's what you do with that dip that makes you successful. I love how encouraged community as well, so when I think you're getting ready to perform, it's very easy to be inside your own head, but if you pay attention to the people around you that are helping make you successful, like the engineers and the producers and people that are handling your accounting or marketing and learning from them that it helps you diversify our income later... Because you get to learn from the people that are helping you be successful. Teaching by here, I also like how he felt he had to defend his data in his own way of saying that he wasn't presenting this data to discourage anybody from being in this business, 'cause it is, we all know this already, that this business is incredibly difficult to get to the top, but what industry isn't that way, if you really analyze it as how many people are the top of any industry, a very small percentage, that doesn't mean that everyone can't succeed at some place in there, and we know this, but it's just another reminder that when you don't get to that one goal, it doesn't mean that the entire journey is ruined, that there's nothing left to do, it...

0:24:01.1 S2: It is always one of the things that you have to stop and reflect and say, Now what... What do I want next that a parallel to even with marketing. So when I started, I was in affiliate marketing, and then as I found that I enjoy data a little differently when it came to Google Analytics, to Google AdWords, to Facebook Analytics, Facebook AdWords. And now, even when we talk about music, AI is coming up a lot, and then marketing AI is coming up there, well as well, so I need to re-evaluate my game and learn as much about AI and how it's dominating the digital marketing space, a single action step for this week is to figure out what parts of the music business you really love doing and make a list, spend some time with these ideas, what areas are you really enjoying spending your time in, what are some of the other jobs that you enjoy spending your time doing, because we all know we wear a lot of hats, even as a performer, you find yourself doing a lot of other parts in order to make the performance succeed, so there's a lot of other areas in there that you can explore as alternate revenue streams.

0:25:09.5 S2: So see how you might begin to make them, at the very least, a part of your income diversification, we know how valuable your time is, and we so appreciate you spending this time with us and being a part of our community. Of this community, it is our hope that you feel the same sense of community here at musicians tip chart and are willing and interested to get involved. Go to a website and musician stepdad Com.

0:25:33.8 S1: It's my line, what are you doing? You're supposed to ask me and Dave, how can they get a hold of us?

0:25:40.2 S2: I just want this... Everybody look at... He's just baring over... I get three lines at the end of this podcast, and this week, we just gotta get to the end, but what day... There's more, I'm trying to let everyone know that all this hard work that you've been putting into our website needs to be appreciated, and they need you as part of this community, go there and recognize how many cool deals and access to a lot of different resources that you've put up there, and if we don't mention it, how are they gonna know about them? Well, thank you, Chris, if they wanna reach out to us. How do they do that? I was gonna ask you that same question as if they would like to come and participate in all of this hard work that you have put into this podcast... How do they do that day? You can go to musicians tip jar dot com or send us an email at musicians to A at Gmail and make sure you rate subscribe to this podcast, leave us a comment, go to our website, sign up for a weekly newsletter that is free. We will explore the week's topics even further in that email and provide you with helpful resources for your music business as always, thank you for joining us and remember there is already enough for everyone, you just need to know how to get it.

0:26:56.9 S2: Until next time, I'm the gal for day, tank and myself, chisels stay. Stay healthy and take care of each other. The only place where success comes before words is the dictionary... This is musician Tito.

0:27:15.9 S1: Nothing on this show should be considered a specific personal or professional advice, placed consultant appropriate tax legal testers for financial professionals or individualized device, individual results and guaranteed and all distaste IES have the potential for profit laws, the hole. So operating on the half of musicians temperature llcs.